#312: How to Do Better Email Marketing

#312 | Jess Lytle (Head of Marketing at Exit Five) hosts a roundtable with a group of email experts on what’s actually working in email, SMS, and in-app messaging right now. They dig into AI’s impact on the inbox, how to sound human when everyone’s using the same tools, and why relevance beats volume. The group also breaks down how to personalize without being creepy, what to do with “lurkers” who never click but still convert, and how to build messaging that survives the AI slop era. It’s a sharp look at how B2B marketers can cut through the noise, earn attention, and actually get people to respond.

Timestamps

• (00:17) - — Jess welcomes everyone
  
• (02:30) - — Why email and messaging aren’t dead… bad messaging is
  
• (05:58) - — How AI changed the inbox and why standing out is harder than ever
  
• (06:34) - — Why human senders beat brand senders in email
  
• (10:03) - — Writing emails like you were invited into someone’s personal space
  
• (12:18) - — Balancing stakeholder requests vs. what your audience actually wants
  
• (15:28) - — Real talk on AI personalization, enrichment, and where it actually works
  
• (21:33) - — Subject lines, preview text, and how people really decide what to open
  
• (23:08) - — Email stories and empathy-driven content that outperform
  
• (29:03) - — SMS, in-app, and email orchestration: what to use when
  
• (36:20) - — Measuring impact when email is assist, not hero
  
• (44:20) - — The future: AI-driven workflows, data challenges, and what’s coming
  
• (53:00) - — Favorite tools (Claude, NotebookLM, etc.) and how people use them

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***

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Dave [0:00:00]: You're listening to B2b marketing with me, Dave Gerhardt.

Jess [0:00:17]: Welcome, welcome everyone.

Jess [0:00:18]: Welcome to Exit Five live.

Jess [0:00:20]: I'm Jess Lytle, I'm the head of marketing here at Exit Five.

Jess [0:00:23]: Actually stepping in for Dave today.

Jess [0:00:26]: So go easy on me.

Jess [0:00:28]: He's out...

Jess [0:00:28]: He's actually recovering from kind of a major hip surgery, so there's gonna be no peloton in his near feature for the next couple of weeks.

Jess [0:00:36]: But I promised him that I wouldn't wouldn't break anything on here, so we'll

Gabby [0:00:40]: see how it goes.

Gabby [0:00:41]: But if

Jess [0:00:42]: you're new here, we we do these free live sessions, like, twice a month.

Jess [0:00:46]: And before I actually joined Exit Five, I was a guest on one of these, webinars myself, and they're they're pretty cool.

Jess [0:00:53]: I was actually showing an Roi, like, tool that I built on lovable.

Jess [0:00:56]: But they're really fun.

Jess [0:00:58]: They're just really, like, conversations.

Jess [0:01:00]: They're un scripted.

Jess [0:01:00]: There's real operators on this call who are in the trenches, kinda doing the work every day.

Jess [0:01:06]: So really here they're just here to help us get smarter, have a conversation.

Jess [0:01:10]: Maybe you learn something.

Jess [0:01:11]: Maybe you walk away with, like, a moment where you're like, that's great.

Jess [0:01:14]: I wanna do that.

Jess [0:01:15]: I wanna take that back.

Jess [0:01:15]: So I know selfish officially, I'm also excited to learn to improve some of the the email strategy and systems here at Exit Five as well.

Jess [0:01:22]: So so welcome this conversation is all about messaging, email Sms, in app messaging, what's actually working this year in twenty twenty five from twenty twenty six.

Jess [0:01:32]: Because as we know, email isn't dead.

Jess [0:01:34]: Right?

Jess [0:01:34]: People are making this work.

Jess [0:01:35]: Messaging isn't dead.

Jess [0:01:37]: Bad messaging is, and and Ai is making that a lot more scalable.

Jess [0:01:40]: So the bar for attention in the inbox today is higher than ever, and I think we can all feel that.

Jess [0:01:45]: So thanks for being here.

Jess [0:01:47]: I'm also just gonna do a quick read for our sponsors here.

Jess [0:01:52]: So thank you to Customer.io for sponsoring today's session.

Jess [0:01:57]: If you haven't used it or know of them already, they're...

Jess [0:02:01]: They're one of, like, the Og, data driven messaging platform.

Jess [0:02:04]: So turning your customer data into personalized messages across email push Sms and an app, So it's really great because it gives us as marketers that control, so you can really kinda create and change your messages on your own, you don't need to, like bug your dev team or engineer to help.

Jess [0:02:18]: Actually, in my last role, prior to joining Exit Five, I used Customer.io, I was director of Demand Jen at a P vertical Saas organization.

Jess [0:02:28]: That is actually a lot of little terms there.

Jess [0:02:31]: But our team used customary Heavily, it was actually really great for our thirty day trial onboarding flow.

Jess [0:02:38]: Everything was kinda triggered off of user behavior, which is great.

Jess [0:02:40]: And really helpful.

Jess [0:02:41]: So that really kinda behavior led flow didn't really like, like, make it feel like marketing.

Jess [0:02:46]: It was more like they'll be, like, being guided through So the timing, the relevance and the messaging was kind of the secret sauce there.

Jess [0:02:52]: So really cool.

Jess [0:02:53]: Great for smaller big team.

Jess [0:02:55]: So huge thank you to Customer.io for forty sessions and check out their website?

Jess [0:02:59]: Customer.io.

Jess [0:03:00]: Alright.

Jess [0:03:01]: Let's introduce the guests on this call.

Jess [0:03:04]: Alright.

Jess [0:03:05]: Here's our channel amazing group today.

Jess [0:03:07]: I'll just have everyone do a quick intro on themselves.

Jess [0:03:10]: Let's just start with Gabby, and then we'll go to Alyssa and Joe.

Gabby [0:03:15]: Jess.

Gabby [0:03:15]: Thanks so much.

Gabby [0:03:15]: And Exit Five team thanks so much for having me and all of us here today.

Gabby [0:03:18]: My name is Gabby.

Gabby [0:03:19]: I'm based in New york city.

Gabby [0:03:20]: I had been at Customer.io now for about six years working in life cycle marketing and growth.

Gabby [0:03:24]: So I cover our onboarding activation, series for our users.

Alyssa [0:03:29]: My name is Alyssa.

Alyssa [0:03:29]: I run an email marketing agency.

Alyssa [0:03:31]: I help with email and Sms for D and P brands.

Joe [0:03:35]: My name is Joe Cunningham.

Joe [0:03:36]: I am in email marketing consultant and copywriter.

Joe [0:03:39]: And I've edited hundreds of emails, newsletter ads for stack marketer.

Joe [0:03:46]: Which is a digital marketing newsletter and also works with Saas and tech brands with the vet emails and some cold outbound.

Joe [0:03:54]: And some, like, con conjunction stuff too.

Jess [0:03:57]: Nice.

Joe [0:03:58]: And On basin.

Joe [0:03:58]: I'm in.

Jess [0:04:00]: Awesome.

Jess [0:04:00]: Yeah.

Jess [0:04:01]: We have folks from all over.

Jess [0:04:02]: I'm in Tampa.

Jess [0:04:03]: Like, Alyssa, you're in, like, outside of Seattle.

Jess [0:04:05]: Gabby in New York.

Jess [0:04:06]: Let us know where else everyone else is.

Jess [0:04:09]: Let's are around lunch lunchtime for us.

Jess [0:04:11]: But awesome.

Jess [0:04:12]: Thanks for those interest guys.

Jess [0:04:14]: Alright.

Jess [0:04:14]: Let's get into it.

Jess [0:04:15]: So these...

Jess [0:04:15]: If you haven't been on one of these, like, live combos before.

Jess [0:04:18]: They're really interactive to drop questions on the chat as we go.

Jess [0:04:22]: I'll be watching that like, a hawk pulling questions under into the conversation.

Jess [0:04:25]: I think, we have like, over a thousand people on this couple hundred live already.

Jess [0:04:29]: So please ask away.

Jess [0:04:30]: Alright.

Jess [0:04:31]: I will kick us off.

Jess [0:04:32]: So email is dead.

Jess [0:04:34]: Everything's dead.

Jess [0:04:35]: Alive is dead.

Jess [0:04:35]: Let that comment.

Jess [0:04:37]: Nobody means anymore.

Jess [0:04:38]: Oh, nobody doesn't it.

Jess [0:04:40]: Right...

Jess [0:04:40]: It's not...

Jess [0:04:40]: It it can't be true.

Jess [0:04:41]: Right?

Jess [0:04:41]: Like, so we know we've we've heard these things, but the truth is though, that Ai has really has changed the game a little bit.

Jess [0:04:49]: Right?

Jess [0:04:49]: It's really kind of changed how we stand out in the inbox.

Jess [0:04:54]: I think most folks recognize that there's a lot of Ai being delivered to us.

Jess [0:04:58]: In our inbox and and it's hard to to kind of sit through the signal from the noise here.

Jess [0:05:03]: So I I think we could just start with, like, just a high level kind of thought here and how has this changed?

Jess [0:05:10]: Like, how has the messaging changed this year?

Jess [0:05:14]: You know, what's working?

Jess [0:05:15]: What what are you doing?

Jess [0:05:16]: I'm, Joe, you mess you mentioned, like, messaging.

Jess [0:05:19]: Do you wanna kinda kick us off on on just your thoughts on, like, what is changing with messaging right now?

Joe [0:05:26]: A few things I've noticed This isn't, like, messaging per s, but it is related.

Joe [0:05:31]: I'm seeing more and more...

Joe [0:05:32]: I almost feel like the email inbox is becoming a bit more of, like a social feed.

Joe [0:05:36]: I'm seeing more companies sending emails from met, like, from team members.

Joe [0:05:42]: So it's gonna be, you know, like, the name of the person in the the sender and there's gonna be...

Joe [0:05:48]: They often have, like, a sign off or a sign, you know, like, some kind of signature at the end of the email.

Joe [0:05:53]: I noticed for myself.

Joe [0:05:55]: I almost instinctively look for names in my inbox and not so much company names.

Joe [0:06:00]: So, like, I see Mark Members emails from, user evidence and I'm like, sweet.

Joe [0:06:07]: Like, I like work.

Joe [0:06:07]: Like, I I like reading his insights.

Joe [0:06:09]: I see Kay Evans from demand loop.

Joe [0:06:11]: So I'm like, oh, Kay awesome.

Joe [0:06:13]: I love her her Show.

Jess [0:06:15]: Yeah.

Joe [0:06:16]: Yeah.

Joe [0:06:16]: So, like, I think that it's related to messaging in the sense that messaging is still coming from the the sender is just as important.

Joe [0:06:24]: The the, like, the the person who's delivering the message is just as important, maybe even more so now.

Joe [0:06:29]: Another thing I'm seeing is the teams and the companies that seem to have the best grasp of their Ic.

Joe [0:06:37]: Like, it's clear they know who they're talking to.

Joe [0:06:40]: It's clear they understand the problems that they're they're solving or other their company solves.

Joe [0:06:44]: It's like they're put they're they're putting in the work to make their messaging actually quality.

Joe [0:06:50]: I think that's pretty apparent.

Joe [0:06:51]: Like, the the stuff the we words that ad speak, things like, we've got you covered.

Joe [0:06:55]: And, you know, that kind of messaging, I just don't think land.

Joe [0:06:58]: Yeah.

Joe [0:06:59]: Anymore.

Joe [0:06:59]: It's brutally is that.

Joe [0:07:01]: If it's not Ai.

Joe [0:07:01]: It's just not there's not a lot of Ic depth in terms of the research and the copy there.

Jess [0:07:09]: Yeah.

Jess [0:07:09]: Looking for, like, you're, like, looking for the human.

Jess [0:07:11]: I've noticed that too with like, having even just a photo and adding that to your your Crm systems.

Jess [0:07:18]: We did that with the prompt, but, like, you'll see if you scroll through your inbox.

Jess [0:07:22]: Some people will have a photo there.

Jess [0:07:24]: And some people will just be, like, nothing or, like, the company logo and that That be, like, a big teller.

Jess [0:07:29]: And you...

Jess [0:07:31]: There's a a good question here from from Rachel, but are they actually being sent by that individual?

Jess [0:07:36]: Like, do you know, Joe?

Jess [0:07:37]: Like, is there...

Jess [0:07:38]: Is it just, like, are they...

Jess [0:07:40]: Is it going directly back to the sender?

Jess [0:07:41]: Is it, like, ghost written sent from the Map.

Jess [0:07:45]: Like, do you know if they're sending or it just looks like it's being sent from someone else.

Joe [0:07:49]: I mean, it looks like it's being sent from someone else.

Joe [0:07:51]: But...

Joe [0:07:51]: Usually, it's it's automated.

Joe [0:07:53]: It's goes written or.

Joe [0:07:54]: But a lot of companies are I do see some companies that, well, if you were to hit reply, the email would actually go person's address, which I do think is kind of, like the next level up if you are...

Joe [0:08:05]: If you're able to do that, if you're willing to do that or able to settle some kind of routing systems so you kinda, like, filter out the out of office replies and stuff like that.

Joe [0:08:14]: Like, if you want emails to be that kind of to feel like that one to one channel and to be that that relationship builder that makes sense to me.

Joe [0:08:22]: So by mix, some people still use general inbox, some people are using actual team emails.

Jess [0:08:29]: Yep.

Jess [0:08:29]: We get all of the replies so that the whole Exit Five team can see them for for all of our emails.

Jess [0:08:36]: I know that also helps with deliver ability, so that's a good hack just asking everyone to Yeah.

Jess [0:08:40]: Reply, but then actually have that some work.

Jess [0:08:42]: Where you could see it?

Jess [0:08:43]: There's some really awesome responses sometimes and make it to where someone actually could respond to.

Jess [0:08:49]: What about Lisa, Gabby, you guys thoughts on just messaging and and how that's changing this year.

Jess [0:08:54]: What's working what's what are you guys doing there?

Alyssa [0:08:58]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:08:58]: I think just to add to that.

Alyssa [0:08:59]: Really, you tapped into something was saying, like, finding the human in it.

Alyssa [0:09:03]: The inbox is like a personal space.

Alyssa [0:09:05]: And anytime I'm writing an email, like, not to get you existential for a second, but really, like, look at it as someone invited you into their inbox.

Alyssa [0:09:11]: Like I'm gonna treat that with respect.

Alyssa [0:09:13]: Like, they've invited me into this place that communication with them.

Alyssa [0:09:15]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:09:15]: I mean, treat them like an actual person.

Alyssa [0:09:17]: Gotta to filter your emails through that.

Alyssa [0:09:20]: And so with that perspective, I think, to taking it a next step to be like, how can I define my role in their inbox?

Alyssa [0:09:26]: So if I am this person something got was fine of mine is, like, we made all of the emails come from the intern.

Alyssa [0:09:32]: And then that was, like, his role in the inbox.

Alyssa [0:09:35]: So you knew you're were getting messages from someone who was, like, testing things out and kind of fumbling and learning their way along.

Alyssa [0:09:41]: It almost created this story narrative between these emails, even though the emails themselves were just, like, plain text, reaching out conversations, it really gave him, like, a distinct voice.

Alyssa [0:09:53]: So you were, like, wanting to opt do this story.

Alyssa [0:09:55]: Almost like an ongoing podcast or audio, like, you're wanting to opt into it.

Alyssa [0:09:59]: And then with that, like, really shifting attention if you have the ability to to asking for a replies, Like, getting people to engage with email in the way that it's meant to be engaged with.

Gabby [0:10:09]: Yep.

Gabby [0:10:09]: Love that.

Gabby [0:10:10]: I the, my wife at worked is, like, suddenly getting a little spas, so I dropped off course.

Gabby [0:10:14]: Sorry But I yeah.

Gabby [0:10:16]: I to what Alyssa was saying.

Gabby [0:10:17]: And I mean, from what I seen to your work List, you're really good at this human photo voice.

Gabby [0:10:20]: But I think, like, what makes each marketer is contribution unique is that, at some point, all the L m's will sound sit the same because they have so much similar input.

Gabby [0:10:28]: And even if you say, make it casual, like, make it friendly, it will still sound similar to what else is doing there.

Gabby [0:10:34]: So I think what each individual person, like, On this fallen.

Gabby [0:10:36]: Can can contribute to their to voice which only that person can like, write.

Gabby [0:10:40]: And that's what...

Gabby [0:10:40]: And I...

Gabby [0:10:41]: One of my coworkers is was it a talk, like, a month ago where someone said, like, their best practice for email is, like, what, like, pretend, like you're ready to your best friend.

Gabby [0:10:48]: So I think, like, each of us would address, like, our best friends in their way.

Gabby [0:10:51]: So I think that's something very powerful that can still send out in the inbox even in the age of, like, L generated emails.

Jess [0:10:58]: Yeah.

Jess [0:10:58]: Somebody asked here, Maria, How do you balance like, what company stakeholders are asking you to include and, like, emails, newsletters, I'm laughing also.

Jess [0:11:06]: Product feature updates announcements with what you think will be actually useful.

Gabby [0:11:12]: That's already death.

Alyssa [0:11:14]: No.

Alyssa [0:11:14]: I'm kidding.

Jess [0:11:18]: You block them and ignore it now.

Joe [0:11:20]: James Just sitting soon.

Jess [0:11:22]: That day.

Joe [0:11:26]: We don't do that here.

Jess [0:11:28]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:11:29]: I mean, I also need to maria, but I think that, like, it's it's a fine line depending on, like, the state of...

Gabby [0:11:34]: We not politics like the state of life, what's going on in the company no.

Gabby [0:11:37]: No.

Gabby [0:11:37]: Like, you have to kind of Yeah.

Gabby [0:11:39]: You need to know and how to nurture your relationships without it org, but also be like, hey.

Gabby [0:11:43]: If we include the nine new product releases this month, literally, no one we'll have worried about any of them.

Gabby [0:11:47]: You know.

Gabby [0:11:48]: So I think you need to step as the expert.

Gabby [0:11:50]: And be like, hey.

Gabby [0:11:51]: I know that we should include more than three product releases because no, like, science says that no one will read longer than ten seconds of this.

Gabby [0:11:57]: You know.

Gabby [0:11:58]: So I think you need to be staffed by for yeah like relationship management, but also, like, be the expert that you are in your space.

Joe [0:12:04]: Oh, And think say cut.

Joe [0:12:05]: Add to that Mean, like, part of that...

Joe [0:12:07]: Yeah.

Joe [0:12:08]: Part of this, like, I had this with client recently aware they they had a...

Joe [0:12:12]: Event...

Joe [0:12:12]: They had a conference coming up, and their Cmo wanted to send out emails that were basically saying, hey.

Joe [0:12:18]: Our team is gonna be there, like, you should come to.

Joe [0:12:20]: And they were like, okay.

Joe [0:12:22]: So how do me how you write this so that it's actually going to be meaningful.

Joe [0:12:26]: I think that's kinda challenge for mark...

Joe [0:12:29]: Know, b markers.

Joe [0:12:29]: Is that part of it.

Joe [0:12:30]: There's always gonna be an element of that?

Joe [0:12:32]: And sometimes there's gonna be...

Joe [0:12:34]: Yeah.

Joe [0:12:34]: There's gonna be a part It's like, let me...

Joe [0:12:37]: I let me...

Joe [0:12:38]: We shouldn't really send this Scott email.

Joe [0:12:39]: You know.

Joe [0:12:40]: But they kinda have to.

Joe [0:12:42]: But I think there was unique challenge there in that that's kind of this, the story part of marketing is.

Joe [0:12:48]: There is a story there.

Joe [0:12:49]: There is probably a way you can connect that product update to that, you know, to that recipient, but guiding your team think in terms of the segments.

Joe [0:12:58]: You're sending to, so we're not just going to people blasting this.

Joe [0:13:01]: Everyone relevance is everything in the inbox.

Jess [0:13:05]: Right

Joe [0:13:05]: Now.

Joe [0:13:05]: So sending it to the right people, and, like, we could send this product update, but we're gonna send it to the right people, and we're gonna tell the story about this product in the right way.

Joe [0:13:14]: So it actually shows them hey here how here's how this makes your workflow better.

Joe [0:13:19]: Here's how this helps you get from a to b.

Joe [0:13:22]: Yeah.

Joe [0:13:22]: I think that.

Jess [0:13:23]: It sounds so simple, but sometimes like, we forget as marketers there's just, like, humans like, you and I opening emails on the other side reading them?

Jess [0:13:30]: So, like, why would they wanna read that?

Jess [0:13:32]: If it's just a feature update that doesn't offer, like, a helpful use case or, like, a value point to them?

Jess [0:13:37]: Like, is that really helpful?

Jess [0:13:38]: Or is it just us pushing the message we wanna push and hoping that it triggers something from them to do.

Jess [0:13:44]: Right?

Jess [0:13:44]: So sometimes it's just like going back to the to the basics and thinking about who's on the other end receiving that.

Jess [0:13:50]: But I think relevant.

Jess [0:13:51]: Over volume, is critical right now, especially today with Ai.

Jess [0:13:55]: But...

Jess [0:13:56]: But, yeah, depth to blasting as they say, in the chats, that is the...

Jess [0:14:02]: That is the thing that does need to be dead.

Jess [0:14:04]: Even us internally Exit Five week.

Jess [0:14:06]: You know, we're working constantly to try to improve the way that we're communicating with with everyone.

Jess [0:14:11]: And I think that there's always some place that you could grow and improve in these things.

Jess [0:14:16]: So Speaking of Ai.

Jess [0:14:17]: Let's move on to that layer of this.

Jess [0:14:20]: Because I think it is really interesting to hear how different marketers are using Ai, whether it's for, like, personalization, Like, what part of the journey?

Jess [0:14:30]: Is it being used on?

Jess [0:14:32]: Is it, like, the personalization aspect of it, the testing aspect of it or the send strategy that's, you know, Ai involved in that mix.

Jess [0:14:40]: Gabby, you look like you were nodding like you have something

Gabby [0:14:43]: done I was like a list ago.

Gabby [0:14:45]: You let me better know.

Gabby [0:14:47]: Okay.

Gabby [0:14:48]: So...

Gabby [0:14:49]: Oh, okay.

Gabby [0:14:50]: I'll try sleep.

Gabby [0:14:50]: So the thought I had was, Joe, I saw that in, like, in some of your portfolio work you've implemented, like, sing that Ai is like, Ai feature to kind of pull in business, yeah.

Gabby [0:15:01]: Business name, probably use case to, like, use some personalization and opening copy.

Gabby [0:15:05]: So, yeah.

Gabby [0:15:06]: We've we've also had, like, some success with that at custom where, like, increased engagement.

Gabby [0:15:10]: For used in trial, but not as much.

Gabby [0:15:12]: I think success as you saw on revenue.

Gabby [0:15:14]: So that was making me think.

Gabby [0:15:16]: So Like forget example, you were using Sing dot Ai, We were using, like, an In workflow with Api calls to chat To be like, hey, use our data enrichment that we already have going for our sales tools to, like, bring in some information and, like, guess how this person would like to be talk to given their role on Linkedin.

Gabby [0:15:30]: If it's available whatever.

Gabby [0:15:31]: But, I saw that, like, Joe's Campaign had a lot of revenue impact for, like, a cold.

Gabby [0:15:35]: A I'm more cold, like, outreach sort of sales.

Gabby [0:15:37]: If that's...

Gabby [0:15:37]: If I'm just driving that.

Gabby [0:15:38]: Right?

Gabby [0:15:38]: I'm I'm just believe that was thunder whereas ours where they're...

Gabby [0:15:41]: They were already users and had already opted free trial.

Gabby [0:15:44]: It drove high engagement, not but not so much free to paid conversion.

Gabby [0:15:48]: So I think that for sales was, like, more Bd...

Gabby [0:15:50]: Limit, like, Bd outreach there might be some really good, like, L enrichment text use cases.

Gabby [0:15:56]: But, anyway, I don't know if Joe Or was you wanna talk to that a little bit more.

Gabby [0:15:59]: Because for us it's been, like, high engagement for our trial users, but less revenue driving in and, like, hard implement.

Joe [0:16:05]: Mh.

Joe [0:16:05]: Yeah.

Joe [0:16:05]: One of my clients is a is a company called Sing.

Joe [0:16:08]: They're, like, an Ai personalization tool.

Joe [0:16:10]: Yeah.

Joe [0:16:11]: So for another one with my clients, I help them use Sing, and we sent an email to a list of.

Joe [0:16:17]: There are a list of potential sponsors for the newsletter of people who had expressed interest in advertising.

Joe [0:16:22]: And one of the things we did was we personalized elements of the email body itself so that it would show, like, the intro would speak to...

Joe [0:16:32]: It would share an example of us of someone in their space, like, in their vertical or had a similar business model who run ads before and saw decent results.

Joe [0:16:42]: And then based on the industry they were in, we would show the relevant like logos that they would either find, like, compelling or or, like, another relevant any case study, And then we also had a a part in there that spoke to their gross age, where were they at in terms of their their company size or company growth, and that was also personalized section of the email.

Joe [0:17:03]: So each email that every contact got slightly different.

Joe [0:17:06]: So that's like one...

Joe [0:17:07]: That's like one way that you can there Our Ai tools like that can help you really personalized and messaging and make it a little more relevant to that contact.

Joe [0:17:16]: And their their circumstances of are and the signals you had from them and so on.

Joe [0:17:21]: That's part of it.

Joe [0:17:23]: I do think, like, speaking generally to Ai email workflows, it...

Joe [0:17:29]: Like, it's never gonna be perfect.

Joe [0:17:30]: Right?

Joe [0:17:30]: Because kinda jess is saying, like a lot of these All or meaningless was.

Joe [0:17:34]: I can't remember what who said this.

Joe [0:17:35]: But a lot of the all, like, at some point, if you're using them that kind of weak generic phrasing and those weird structures like, that's gonna slip in.

Joe [0:17:45]: But...

Joe [0:17:46]: Mh.

Joe [0:17:46]: I do think it's helpful to almost think of your content as data.

Joe [0:17:50]: So if you're building a content workflow for your emails.

Joe [0:17:53]: To make sure you're the...

Joe [0:17:56]: Contact your training your L on is as high quality as possible.

Joe [0:17:59]: It's like, very strong human voice, really strong stories, case studies, data like, whatever you're able to train your own workflow on, it's gonna help you get better outputs.

Joe [0:18:11]: And then training your models that they...

Joe [0:18:14]: For, like, your email specifically, if you're doing a newsletter, for example, like, when of my clients put together a series of pro of of workflows where they had each section of the newsletter, produced, like, section by section.

Joe [0:18:27]: So it's not like it's total newsletter all at once.

Joe [0:18:29]: Each each section has its own like strategy, it's own purpose.

Joe [0:18:32]: And so your train...

Joe [0:18:34]: You're like developing and the workflow for that section alone.

Joe [0:18:37]: You get much better outputs.

Gabby [0:18:39]: Right.

Joe [0:18:40]: That way.

Joe [0:18:40]: And then the last stages is you you do have that human editor, the human in the loop who like reviews the whole thing

Jess [0:18:47]: for...

Jess [0:18:47]: Not

Joe [0:18:48]: just accuracy, but also for tone for structure for strategy making sure they need the email the newsletter or whatever it is that's going out, is it optimized to perform as much as possible based on that particular campaign, that particular audience so on, And then also adding in those little, like, kinda, I, like, I kinda think of them as, like, sp elements where you're adding, like, like, that, you know, that gif or that, like, office reference or, like, whatever it is, Like that, you know, that that final human touch that it does feel.

Joe [0:19:20]: A little spontaneous, a little natural.

Joe [0:19:23]: Feels like it's coming from a human.

Joe [0:19:24]: Feels like it's coming from something at your team who was just, like, this this kind of thing like happened today.

Joe [0:19:29]: And we're talking about.

Joe [0:19:30]: Let's pull that in.

Joe [0:19:31]: So I do think you can kinda like, you can use Ai say help you personalize your emails, which I think is really can be good for outbound where you need that it needs to feel researched, and it needs to feel relevant.

Joe [0:19:43]: Because it's no context.

Joe [0:19:45]: It's coming from, you like a Rand.

Joe [0:19:47]: But then there's, like, and, like, that Miranda.

Joe [0:19:51]: But then the all and, like, workflow side for your own team and where you're trying to...

Joe [0:19:55]: You want to make your content more efficient for your emails, but you still need that kind balance of, like, authenticity and quality and yeah...

Jess [0:20:04]: What about optimizing for subject lines too, You know, trying to get, like, those open rates up, you know, anything kinda of beyond just...

Jess [0:20:11]: Generally personal.

Jess [0:20:12]: Like, this is something I'm really working on right now for our our newsletter, my first newsletter ever that I'm writing, and and that's...

Jess [0:20:20]: It seems so simple, but it's like, the subject line, the preview text.

Jess [0:20:24]: I feel like are so important and there's it's hard to get that down.

Jess [0:20:28]: Mh.

Alyssa [0:20:30]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:20:30]: I think lean a lot into to, like, you're...

Alyssa [0:20:33]: Again, going back to, like, who you are in the inbox because I've noticed, like, take a step for a second.

Alyssa [0:20:38]: If you notice your own scrolling patterns.

Alyssa [0:20:40]: Like, when you go to open an email, stop and think, like, what made me open this email.

Jess [0:20:45]: I just started doing that.

Jess [0:20:46]: Sounds...

Jess [0:20:47]: Yeah.

Jess [0:20:47]: I'm like, one time.

Alyssa [0:20:49]: It's it's one of three things.

Alyssa [0:20:51]: Right.

Alyssa [0:20:51]: Subject line, or either, like, that's folded that's totally me.

Alyssa [0:20:54]: It's the sender so you're like, I'm gonna open this no matter what, or it's the time of day.

Alyssa [0:20:58]: And kinda just opening emails right now anyways.

Alyssa [0:21:00]: And if you're having struggles opening emails, you can kinda lean into those three strategies too.

Alyssa [0:21:05]: Like, know that you have more available to you than just subject lines.

Alyssa [0:21:09]: But also I think it's a really good practice to lean into, like, when you're opening emails, what's making you open it.

Alyssa [0:21:15]: What subject lines are really capturing your attention, start taking note of that and then see how you can implement it.

Alyssa [0:21:20]: But then taking that a step further and understanding who you are in the inbox.

Alyssa [0:21:24]: Sometimes I've noticed, really short subject lines that, like, don't make any sense.

Alyssa [0:21:27]: There's certain people.

Alyssa [0:21:28]: I'm totally gonna open that for and there's certain people where I'm, like, this feels off brand.

Alyssa [0:21:32]: I don't like that.

Alyssa [0:21:33]: This feels gimmicky me.

Alyssa [0:21:34]: And so kind up again, I think developing your inbox persona, knowing what people are expecting from you and then really leaning into that character.

Jess [0:21:42]: Yeah.

Jess [0:21:42]: Yeah.

Jess [0:21:43]: All good points.

Jess [0:21:44]: Actually said, I'd love to go, like, super tactical for a second to on this.

Jess [0:21:48]: Is there anything that, like, you could think of top of your head recently that was a campaign like this or, like, an email like this or, like, a subject line or something that, like, worked way better than you thought like, why?

Jess [0:22:00]: Like, I can start with one.

Jess [0:22:01]: There was an email, a newsletter that went out for Exit Five, and I I call it like, our viral email because it had...

Jess [0:22:08]: We'll get replies all of the time, but this one had, like, it was crazy.

Jess [0:22:13]: It was like twenty replies within, like, the first, like, ten minutes it went out.

Jess [0:22:18]: And then they still came in over weeks, and it was, like, it was really punching on, like, the human connection part of it, like, the empathy part, it was the story in it.

Jess [0:22:27]: I think that really resonated with folks and, like, their their day to day date actually had nothing to do with marketing also, which is interesting.

Jess [0:22:33]: This is a marketing newsletter from Exit Five, but it was about, like, how are you managing your mornings?

Jess [0:22:39]: How are you not burning out?

Jess [0:22:41]: Here are some, like, things that I'm doing that aren't like, the things you you've heard of a thousand times, and then folks were replying?

Jess [0:22:47]: Like, wow, this really hit.

Jess [0:22:48]: Or, like, this is how I'm actually doing it or I'm gonna try this thing.

Jess [0:22:51]: It's kind of kind of just...

Jess [0:22:53]: But it was, like, you know, it it was just it was cool to see that too that resonate.

Jess [0:22:58]: So sometimes maybe not even the things that you think that will resonate, but that that human kind of empathy story part.

Jess [0:23:03]: Anyone else?

Gabby [0:23:05]: I'll give about an example guess.

Gabby [0:23:06]: Oh, and say.

Gabby [0:23:07]: I'm sure many people here subscribe to Lenny podcast litter.

Gabby [0:23:10]: And I personally have, like, real...

Gabby [0:23:12]: I subscribe because, like, I to nobody's talking about, but I do not open this emails.

Gabby [0:23:16]: I'm like I can't read another.

Gabby [0:23:17]: Hey, I found story.

Gabby [0:23:18]: But he said an email this morning they're gonna the people I'm seeing about, like, his Christmas tech recommendations.

Gabby [0:23:24]: Black Friday when I was like wait.

Gabby [0:23:25]: I gotta see what he's talking about.

Gabby [0:23:26]: Because I wanna hear another at unicorn story, but I do wanna know what Christmas gives his recommend Am.

Gabby [0:23:31]: Sure.

Gabby [0:23:32]: So nice to see they be, like, there's something different or more human or that's, like, yeah.

Gabby [0:23:36]: Interest of your audience.

Gabby [0:23:38]: Yeah

Jess [0:23:39]: Yeah.

Jess [0:23:39]: Mix it up because, like, we all know our Ic p's are well rounded human beings.

Jess [0:23:43]: Right?

Jess [0:23:43]: They're subscribing to your newsletter because they wanna read about the thing.

Jess [0:23:47]: But But they also have other interests that we probably know what those are.

Jess [0:23:52]: Right?

Jess [0:23:52]: Like, book interest or, like, what is your Ic typically engage outside of work?

Jess [0:23:57]: And how can you provide value for them in that way?

Jess [0:24:00]: So it kind of mixes the things up of a little bit human your brand a little.

Jess [0:24:04]: Yeah.

Jess [0:24:05]: It's of, like Linkedin posting.

Jess [0:24:07]: You kinda gotta do the same thing.

Jess [0:24:09]: Right?

Jess [0:24:09]: Like, some personal with some some top ten list.

Jess [0:24:13]: Mix it up.

Joe [0:24:15]: Yeah.

Joe [0:24:15]: Totally.

Joe [0:24:15]: That kind of stuff is probably...

Joe [0:24:17]: It's probably worth adding to your you're, like, Ic, documentation in your personas too.

Joe [0:24:22]: Yeah.

Joe [0:24:23]: Every time someone in your...

Joe [0:24:25]: Like, response an email with something and mention something that they're into or whatever, like, add that to your...

Joe [0:24:31]: Documentation.

Joe [0:24:32]: Yeah that being constant influenced in the future.

Joe [0:24:35]: That's really good.

Joe [0:24:36]: Yeah It's like like, and you guys five.

Joe [0:24:39]: You do that quite a bit?

Joe [0:24:40]: Or, like, dave dave does bit.

Joe [0:24:42]: That's like

Gabby [0:24:43]: about does.

Joe [0:24:44]: Oh, like parenting, and it absolutely.

Joe [0:24:46]: I'm a parent...

Joe [0:24:47]: I work out.

Joe [0:24:48]: So I'm like, oh, yeah.

Joe [0:24:49]: Like that.

Joe [0:24:49]: You know, I get into that.

Jess [0:24:52]: Yeah.

Jess [0:24:52]: And it inspires you to to do that too.

Jess [0:24:54]: You know, to do more it It's not always just like the same story.

Jess [0:24:57]: Yeah.

Jess [0:24:58]: Cool.

Jess [0:24:59]: I'm seeing some really cool.

Jess [0:25:00]: Let me look through these questions and the at Go canada, great newsletter.

Jess [0:25:05]: There was good...

Jess [0:25:08]: Oh, here's an interesting one.

Jess [0:25:09]: Do you have any advice for...

Jess [0:25:11]: I mean, they're all interesting, but this one's standing out.

Jess [0:25:13]: Do you have any advice for cold sending domains are sub domain hundred percent safe for protecting the main domain.

Alyssa [0:25:21]: You definitely went start strong warm up strategy.

Joe [0:25:24]: Yeah.

Joe [0:25:24]: I.

Jess [0:25:26]: Weeks.

Jess [0:25:26]: Sometimes...

Jess [0:25:26]: I know that inbox are...

Jess [0:25:28]: They're getting a lot tighter on on, like, all of this too.

Jess [0:25:32]: And, like, you'll find your your email showing up in promotions tab, which what, like, nobody checks maybe, like, once a year.

Jess [0:25:38]: If that, you know, before they delete them all.

Jess [0:25:41]: Yeah.

Jess [0:25:42]: Any thoughts on that.

Jess [0:25:43]: So warming up the domain first.

Joe [0:25:46]: Yeah.

Joe [0:25:46]: Definitely warming up the domain, and this is like, I don't know this is tangent related, but I would almost like, even before you do that.

Joe [0:25:56]: I I don't know.

Joe [0:25:57]: I would almost suggest like, make just make sure that your audience is actually...

Joe [0:26:01]: Like, make sure you understand how your Ic uses email.

Joe [0:26:05]: Maybe it makes more sense to do cold outreach somewhere else like Linkedin.

Joe [0:26:09]: I don't

Jess [0:26:10]: Like maybe email isn't isn't the channel for that.

Jess [0:26:13]: Yeah.

Jess [0:26:13]: Is there reminding what mel a better like, assist channel these days, especially these days, like a assist channel or closing channel.

Joe [0:26:21]: Oh, that's a good question.

Joe [0:26:22]: I think it really depends.

Joe [0:26:23]: It does seem to depend on the client.

Joe [0:26:25]: In their industry.

Joe [0:26:26]: And, like, what...

Joe [0:26:28]: Also what their offer is, You know, like the offer such an important part of every email you send, like, what are you, like, asking them for a meeting isn't really an offer.

Joe [0:26:35]: So like, I think there I think there a lot of elements that go go into that?

Joe [0:26:39]: But I do see...

Joe [0:26:40]: I am seeing, like, but there's...

Joe [0:26:43]: There's an email marketer or Tyler Cook.

Joe [0:26:45]: I think he's on this call.

Joe [0:26:46]: Actually Shout to Tyler.

Joe [0:26:47]: He does a really nice job of, like, blending email and Linkedin.

Joe [0:26:53]: So he's he's, like, inviting subscribers to join him and connect with his team on Linkedin as well.

Joe [0:26:58]: Okay.

Joe [0:26:59]: And sc, Eddie sc, was a fantastic copywriter.

Joe [0:27:02]: He does the same thing.

Joe [0:27:03]: So I do think that the email...

Joe [0:27:06]: If you're gonna do, like, cold email, consider doing...

Joe [0:27:10]: Consider not treating it as a, like, you know, operating on in a vacuum.

Joe [0:27:14]: Because just keep in mind too that if people do cold email, and it's interesting.

Joe [0:27:18]: They're probably gonna look you up?

Joe [0:27:20]: So they're not gonna wanna see, like, alright.

Joe [0:27:22]: Who is this?

Joe [0:27:23]: What's the company about, they're gonna wanna see that kind of proof and any...

Joe [0:27:28]: That that social presence that's gonna help you build that proof.

Joe [0:27:32]: So being in...

Joe [0:27:33]: You know?

Joe [0:27:34]: Yeah.

Joe [0:27:34]: Numerous places is not just email.

Joe [0:27:36]: I think Ken can help.

Jess [0:27:38]: But...

Jess [0:27:38]: Yeah.

Jess [0:27:39]: That's kind of the the multi the multi channel strategy.

Jess [0:27:41]: So Yeah.

Jess [0:27:42]: I mean, hopefully, nobody's relying on just one channel, But are...

Jess [0:27:46]: How are you guys all thinking about email versus Sms, when to use it, when to use each versus, like, in app messaging.

Jess [0:27:55]: When does each matter?

Jess [0:27:57]: Is there a right orchestration?

Jess [0:27:58]: I know it depends on a lot of factors.

Jess [0:28:00]: Maybe we...

Jess [0:28:00]: Maybe we have specific examples of, like, hey, this is when this works well when you've got this type of business or this type of vertical.

Jess [0:28:07]: But is there anyway Gabby, do you wanna jump in?

Jess [0:28:10]: Because I know that that's like a big kind of value point that you could do with.

Jess [0:28:14]: With customer Too.

Gabby [0:28:16]: Sure.

Gabby [0:28:16]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:28:17]: So customer does offer, like, yep, push in app, email, Sms.

Gabby [0:28:20]: We personally only use in app and email because we don't do Sms direct messaging because we're B saas.

Gabby [0:28:26]: And we don't have mobile apps.

Gabby [0:28:28]: So no push notifications.

Jess [0:28:29]: That was a question earlier is, like, should you do Sms for Bb saas.

Jess [0:28:33]: So you you're, like you're thinking this isn't the right.

Gabby [0:28:37]: Nope.

Gabby [0:28:37]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:28:37]: People love Dating it.

Gabby [0:28:38]: I'm sure everyone on this call has hot takes.

Gabby [0:28:40]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:28:41]: It's Yeah.

Gabby [0:28:42]: A lot of people not.

Gabby [0:28:44]: It's never, you know, like this phone is sacred anyway, so So I was in it.

Jess [0:28:48]: Depends on the Ic too.

Jess [0:28:49]: Right?

Jess [0:28:49]: But...

Jess [0:28:50]: Yeah.

Jess [0:28:50]: So it's hard to always have, like, a general, like, yes or no, but probably for the majority of the time.

Gabby [0:28:55]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:28:55]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:28:56]: I personally would not love to receive on work related text my personal loan.

Gabby [0:28:59]: But I...

Gabby [0:29:01]: I'll just say that when I'm working more with them, like, activating, trying to activate, like, users who we see, like, are in danger of churning or whatever, Obviously, the move there is not to do an app.

Gabby [0:29:11]: You should do email because If they're not logging to your product.

Gabby [0:29:13]: So, like, you need to try and get them back in, like, an email.

Gabby [0:29:16]: And that's hard.

Gabby [0:29:17]: We're still trying to figure out the recipe there of, like, people are opening all these emails, but they're not taking the the action I wanted them to take.

Gabby [0:29:22]: So why is that?

Gabby [0:29:23]: But, yeah.

Gabby [0:29:24]: Think it depends a lot on where they on the user youtube journey.

Gabby [0:29:26]: If they're already active your product, it's up and in apps.

Gabby [0:29:28]: And if they're new, but it...

Gabby [0:29:29]: They're not active, obviously, email is gonna be better.

Jess [0:29:32]: Yep.

Jess [0:29:32]: That's when we used them to that purse thirty day, like, three free trial that we did.

Jess [0:29:36]: That's when we would do some...

Jess [0:29:37]: So maybe some in app helpful nudge on on Hey try this or here's a video to help with this flow and then some emails connected to that too to get them from, you know, free trial to activation.

Jess [0:29:47]: So that's good feedback.

Jess [0:29:50]: You gotta get that call?

Joe [0:29:52]: So sorry about that.

Joe [0:29:53]: It was expand too.

Jess [0:29:56]: Span Damn.

Jess [0:29:56]: Can we have some tips on how to remove our cell phones from...

Jess [0:30:01]: Because I get forty of those a day?

Jess [0:30:02]: Old call.

Joe [0:30:04]: I have done tested known calls can I stand them?

Jess [0:30:07]: I don't even...

Jess [0:30:08]: Yeah.

Jess [0:30:08]: I think I block all calls that aren't saved in my contacts, but anyways, yeah.

Jess [0:30:13]: Good stuff.

Jess [0:30:14]: Alyssa, do

Alyssa [0:30:15]: you do any

Jess [0:30:16]: Sms and with any?

Jess [0:30:17]: Okay.

Jess [0:30:18]: How...

Jess [0:30:18]: When when do you where and when?

Alyssa [0:30:20]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:30:20]: I feel kinda similar to to what Gabby shared.

Alyssa [0:30:23]: I think Sms is really strong that, utilization if you have, like, something that's urgent.

Alyssa [0:30:27]: So, for brands that are in D to more, like, if you're having a sale, sometimes educational can perform, but really, what I think you need to think about is, like, yeah, People are opening, email on their phone for sure.

Alyssa [0:30:39]: But if there's a time where they're specifically gonna be on their phone, we might lean more towards us semester or in app because those are most likely to be open on the phone.

Alyssa [0:30:46]: If they're more likely to be on prem, you're and you want them to scroll and do a lot of clicking if you want them to do big screen work, then email can sometimes provide more of that space.

Alyssa [0:30:54]: So think about, like, what the Cta is, where you're calling to next, and then help work backwards, like, what's gonna be the best form to communicate that then.

Alyssa [0:31:04]: Like, what's most likely to get them through case?

Alyssa [0:31:05]: If I want them to engage on the app on their phone then I'm gonna try to engage them on their app on their phone, so they're not pulling on an extra step.

Jess [0:31:12]: Yep.

Jess [0:31:12]: True.

Jess [0:31:12]: I wonder what...

Jess [0:31:14]: Would anybody be mad if we...

Jess [0:31:15]: If Exit Five cent text to people, maybe is, like, reminders for live meet events or you're signed up for one already.

Jess [0:31:22]: Maybe that would be helpful.

Jess [0:31:24]: If you're like, hey, I wanna go to this New york event and you get a little text like it is tomorrow, or if, like, we include yes, free pizza for sure, like, free ape rolls spritz or something.

Alyssa [0:31:32]: I also think adding things like the address.

Alyssa [0:31:34]: People can just click to, like, their Google Maps opening up, that can be really useful

Jess [0:31:40]: Okay.

Jess [0:31:40]: Yeah.

Jess [0:31:40]: Something like valley that adds value, not like, just a spam.

Jess [0:31:43]: Yeah.

Jess [0:31:44]: Okay.

Jess [0:31:44]: Somebody said if it was a Dave bot.

Jess [0:31:46]: Yes.

Jess [0:31:46]: Maybe we'll just have Dave randomly just texting people, like, ads really himself.

Alyssa [0:31:51]: It's really me.

Jess [0:31:53]: Really me.

Jess [0:31:54]: Is it...

Jess [0:31:55]: Cool.

Jess [0:31:56]: Alright.

Jess [0:31:57]: Yeah.

Jess [0:31:58]: Somebody said, I think transactional related to a time sensitive thing you've opted into great use case for tax.

Jess [0:32:05]: Yeah.

Jess [0:32:05]: That's a good point.

Joe [0:32:06]: Sound like melissa was saying maybe of, like, if that related?

Joe [0:32:09]: That those makes sense.

Joe [0:32:10]: People who are attending into this.

Joe [0:32:12]: Yeah.

Joe [0:32:12]: And, like they're getting updates.

Joe [0:32:14]: That makes sense.

Jess [0:32:17]: Yep.

Jess [0:32:17]: I agree.

Jess [0:32:18]: Dave Cameo bids.

Jess [0:32:19]: Maybe you could send some of those un unchanged soar videos to people randomly.

Alyssa [0:32:25]: I couldn't think we're stepping outside of the inbox and even sometimes in the inbox, like, utilizing things like voice text messages, videos, like engaging past just, like, writing or typing is really useful.

Jess [0:32:38]: Yeah.

Jess [0:32:38]: Yeah.

Jess [0:32:39]: Somebody said that their customers are event organizers.

Jess [0:32:42]: So Sms is their number one channel.

Alyssa [0:32:45]: Yeah.

Jess [0:32:46]: But really just for re engagement.

Jess [0:32:47]: So I think that's where it could actually be really helpful if, like we said, like, whether it's over verb maybe a virtual event or a live event, But if somebody's opted in, and this is just, like, reminding them in another method outside of just email.

Jess [0:32:58]: Maybe that actually would be helpful for someone as long as you're not emailing them anything else.

Jess [0:33:03]: That's really interesting.

Jess [0:33:04]: We have a lot of events, And I think that could be, like, a cool like, just way to notify people too, if there's, like, a change in plans or, like, if if you're finding, like, people are having difficulty getting to the site, like, sending them the Google...

Jess [0:33:17]: Like, the maps address or something like you said, List, that can be really helpful.

Jess [0:33:21]: Cool.

Jess [0:33:22]: So...

Jess [0:33:22]: Oh, that's a good one too.

Jess [0:33:24]: Reminders for Sms and email in tandem really helped in tune and tune it to helps people to tune in an attendance.

Jess [0:33:29]: So seems that that is working for folks.

Jess [0:33:32]: So when we're...

Jess [0:33:33]: If we are running a multi channel strategy and you've got Sms.

Jess [0:33:36]: Where, you know, it should be and and and maybe outbound email isn't your...

Jess [0:33:41]: Isn't, like the winning channel and you're using other channels for outbound, but emails assisting throughout.

Jess [0:33:46]: How are you or how are folks in the chat?

Jess [0:33:49]: How are how is everyone measuring the success of of email.

Jess [0:33:53]: And I think this is also really challenging because it may not always be a first or last, you know, maybe you could see it was a closer, but it may be also assisted throughout the the journey right is customer journeys are never linear and and they're never the same.

Jess [0:34:07]: So is anyone able to attribute, you know, how are how are folks attributing impact here?

Joe [0:34:13]: It's such a good question.

Joe [0:34:14]: One of my clients they they sent a an event follow up with they got a list of attendees from the event, and they did a...

Joe [0:34:22]: They did a really nice job.

Joe [0:34:23]: Like, I think we did a really good job of setting a follow, a very small two sequence submit to this list.

Joe [0:34:29]: But the thing that they were most most interested in was who was reading the email.

Joe [0:34:34]: Who was reading the email and who was replying.

Joe [0:34:37]: So it's not that, like, the open rates and they click through didn't matter at all, but I almost think that, like, certainly for some campaigns it's probably helpful to think in terms of like, what it what is the...

Joe [0:34:49]: What really is the outcome that we want from this email.

Joe [0:34:52]: Yeah.

Joe [0:34:53]: Maybe it's like, maybe just making sure like, the right Ic is reading this and mike engaging with it?

Joe [0:34:59]: Maybe it's, like, maybe it's replies.

Joe [0:35:01]: People are...

Joe [0:35:01]: They're actually saying, you know, they wanna continue conversations that they had at the event something like that.

Joe [0:35:06]: But I will stick that, like, opens and clicks are good.

Joe [0:35:10]: As long as they're filtering up by activity.

Joe [0:35:12]: And as long as they're...

Jess [0:35:14]: Right.

Joe [0:35:14]: They're like, kind of contributing to the, you know, to the overall, like, strategy of that campaign.

Joe [0:35:20]: They're, like, supported metrics, not, like, the leading the leading Kpis.

Jess [0:35:26]: That's a really good call out because every email plays a different...

Jess [0:35:28]: Has a different job.

Jess [0:35:30]: Right?

Jess [0:35:30]: So it's, like, just measure it, measure it fairly based on the job that you had it do.

Jess [0:35:36]: If it's there to be your closer, then measure it based on whether it drove a demo or of, you know, a sign up.

Jess [0:35:43]: But if it's there to offer value and helpful, you know, for nurture, and content then measure it...

Jess [0:35:51]: Measure it that way.

Jess [0:35:52]: Yeah.

Jess [0:35:52]: Good call out.

Joe [0:35:53]: Yeah.

Joe [0:35:53]: Yeah.

Jess [0:35:55]: Gabby any any thoughts there on measurement.

Alyssa [0:35:58]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:35:58]: I think, Joe kinda hit on something of just saying, like, be really att to your attribution.

Alyssa [0:36:03]: It's like, the the big question.

Alyssa [0:36:04]: Right?

Alyssa [0:36:05]: Is like, how things.

Alyssa [0:36:06]: Really, really dig and Yeah.

Alyssa [0:36:07]: Is that

Jess [0:36:08]: never perfect.

Jess [0:36:09]: Here.

Alyssa [0:36:09]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:36:09]: I don't get caught up in Vanity metrics.

Alyssa [0:36:11]: Figure out, like, your one or two top priorities and then work the story backwards that way.

Alyssa [0:36:16]: But I think looking into things.

Alyssa [0:36:18]: Some things that people often forget to check into is, like, how many contacts has this person had before they convert.

Alyssa [0:36:24]: Really looking into, like, a bigger

Joe [0:36:26]: narrative was that.

Alyssa [0:36:28]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:36:28]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:36:28]: I think that one's been super helpful.

Alyssa [0:36:30]: Even, just, we've started looking into that too.

Alyssa [0:36:32]: We we wanted to dig into a little bit more of some of our unsubscribe stories in narrative, and we started looking you, like, what exactly was that like?

Alyssa [0:36:38]: How many emails exactly were they're getting.

Alyssa [0:36:40]: When where they getting them.

Alyssa [0:36:41]: And, the information we were able to pull from that tool just so much more than just looking at kind of like the vanity metrics.

Jess [0:36:49]: Exactly.

Jess [0:36:49]: Yep.

Jess [0:36:50]: Such a good call.

Gabby [0:36:51]: Gigs.

Gabby [0:36:51]: Because you're gonna have those, like,

Joe [0:36:53]: workers, lurk in the inbox.

Joe [0:36:54]: Right?

Joe [0:36:54]: Like, they might not be.

Joe [0:36:56]: They might not be, like, acting on every email, but if they are reading a...

Joe [0:37:00]: If they are reading consistently and engaging you consistently.

Joe [0:37:02]: That's that's still like...

Joe [0:37:04]: It's still a signal that can be viable.

Jess [0:37:07]: Very sure what you do.

Jess [0:37:08]: True.

Alyssa [0:37:09]: There's a reason you use the, like, engagement statement of, like, ninety days.

Alyssa [0:37:12]: Right?

Alyssa [0:37:12]: Because not everyone's gonna be engaged in thirty days, but they give them enough time to, like, actually engage when they need to engage and still read the subject lines and keep you top of mind and long as they're engaging sometime in those ninety days, that's a pretty healthy segment.

Jess [0:37:26]: Mh.

Jess [0:37:26]: Yeah.

Jess [0:37:26]: Yep.

Jess [0:37:27]: Good call.

Jess [0:37:27]: Someone else said here too, Like, they had a monthly this, like, to your point joe about lurk because I think, like, the majority our lurk.

Jess [0:37:35]: Right?

Jess [0:37:36]: And that's like the dark part of this that we don't always Notice until It's, like, you don't know what you had until it's gone because it's, like, they they said they had a monthly customer email that was stopped.

Jess [0:37:47]: At some point that but probably we're, like, yeah, probably not good.

Jess [0:37:50]: Like, turn it off before he joined, or...

Jess [0:37:53]: Yeah.

Jess [0:37:53]: Before he joined.

Jess [0:37:54]: And when he dug, saw consistent spikes in usage after that email would go out, and then he talked to a customer and they were like, oh, yeah.

Jess [0:38:00]: I used to use that emails as a reminder to go log in and schedule things and use the product.

Jess [0:38:05]: So sometimes also someone told me a marketer told me sometimes like, just reminding people to do things it's good marketing.

Jess [0:38:12]: If it's if it's really helpful useful.

Jess [0:38:14]: But...

Jess [0:38:15]: Yeah, maybe also, like, incrementally test, like, did did things take a hit after you stop something that you didn't think was effective.

Jess [0:38:23]: Like, there's other ways to to look at that from your customers and just hear from them directly.

Joe [0:38:29]: Oh, yeah.

Joe [0:38:29]: Good luck.

Jess [0:38:33]: Was that sarcastic or was that real do?

Joe [0:38:36]: No.

Joe [0:38:36]: That was real.

Joe [0:38:36]: I I real.

Joe [0:38:37]: No.

Joe [0:38:38]: It's, like, yeah.

Joe [0:38:39]: No.

Joe [0:38:40]: The idea of yeah.

Joe [0:38:42]: Paying attention to what stops happening.

Joe [0:38:43]: Too can still be a day.

Joe [0:38:45]: Yeah.

Jess [0:38:47]: Oh, yeah.

Joe [0:38:47]: I I meant that.

Joe [0:38:48]: Know one who said too fix track.

Joe [0:38:50]: Good stuff.

Jess [0:38:52]: Well, sometimes customers are hard to get in touch with.

Jess [0:38:54]: So, like, good luck with that, But, no.

Jess [0:38:56]: I totally get what you're saying.

Jess [0:38:57]: Yeah.

Jess [0:38:57]: I know we're we're coming up on one forty five here.

Jess [0:39:01]: I don't know if there's like, a fifteen minute last q and a kind of thing, But we'll we'll just keep going until I get ping from from Allison, but so far I think we're okay.

Jess [0:39:11]: So any while, we covered a lot of really good on this call.

Jess [0:39:15]: I'm just, like reading through the messages, using emails to help the customer.

Jess [0:39:19]: Great emails more persistent.

Jess [0:39:21]: Yes, people don't delete through.

Jess [0:39:24]: What Joe gonna play us off with a free bird what exactly mean?

Joe [0:39:28]: Sorry.

Joe [0:39:28]: No.

Joe [0:39:29]: Not gonna do it.

Joe [0:39:30]: I can do it.

Jess [0:39:33]: Well, that was, like, a big message at processing cool.

Jess [0:39:36]: I'm driving that.

Jess [0:39:41]: I just wanna make...

Jess [0:39:42]: Yeah.

Jess [0:39:43]: Go ahead, Alyssa.

Gabby [0:39:44]: As you.

Gabby [0:39:44]: There's a

Alyssa [0:39:45]: an Ai things that we haven't talked about real fast if we wanted throw own there if we haven't it.

Jess [0:39:49]: Yeah.

Jess [0:39:49]: Let's.

Jess [0:39:50]: Any Ai things.

Alyssa [0:39:52]: Amy, I know I was talking to the right lady.

Alyssa [0:39:53]: We...

Alyssa [0:39:57]: Some some things that I think to keep in consideration.

Alyssa [0:39:59]: I know we talked about, like, automating the email self.

Alyssa [0:40:02]: But I think Ai plays a really strong role both in the reporting.

Alyssa [0:40:05]: And then, like, getting people onto the email list.

Alyssa [0:40:07]: That's still, I think it's, like strongest use case is, yeah.

Alyssa [0:40:11]: We create really cool lead magnets Just is, like between of that and helping you know, just as simple as like the many chat helping kind of do customer support in that way and get people on the blue list.

Alyssa [0:40:20]: Like, don't forget about all the other ways the Ai can help bolster email without being in the email itself.

Joe [0:40:27]: Sometimes I'll do it for testing messaging too.

Joe [0:40:30]: Like, us for cold campaigns in particular, started creating, like, a mock up Ic in claude, and I will have...

Joe [0:40:38]: I, like, research on the Ic have...

Joe [0:40:41]: And then also on their, like, date date on life.

Joe [0:40:44]: And then test messaging on that Ic.

Joe [0:40:48]: And so it's just helpful in terms of getting a sense of is this...

Joe [0:40:52]: Are there potential risks or, like, things I'm just gave me to dismissed that I might be missing.

Jess [0:40:59]: Mh.

Jess [0:40:59]: He's...

Jess [0:41:00]: Mh.

Joe [0:41:01]: Can be really awful.

Jess [0:41:03]: Yeah.

Jess [0:41:03]: I love that.

Jess [0:41:04]: One tool that I I feel like I beat with a dead horse for for something like this.

Jess [0:41:08]: To is Notebook.

Jess [0:41:09]: If you have a lot of that input data already about your Ic, putting that into Notebook L is is awesome to kinda of pull insights and content and email and copy from.

Jess [0:41:21]: That could be a good one too.

Jess [0:41:22]: If you've got a lot of that, you know, like, personal data to send, like, to get ideas to send some sort of, like, a non marketing type of message for, like, something that hits to, like, their personal interests.

Jess [0:41:33]: You guys can keep talking.

Jess [0:41:35]: I'm just reading through the the charts.

Jess [0:41:37]: How do you promote your newsletter, homepage, slide out, blog page pop up, subtle footer form, what's best and non intrusive.

Gabby [0:41:46]: Quick question to listen Joe, maybe I also fill on the call.

Gabby [0:41:49]: So, one of one of my when of my coworkers is like this, we were, like, March performance and San Francisco, month to go or trying to go.

Gabby [0:41:56]: And I mentioned this, like, confusion.

Gabby [0:41:58]: I'm marketing that that was great.

Gabby [0:41:59]: I'm even marketing that was, like, Now they ai, email marketing is moving from this moment where, like, it used to be this kind of, like, timeline where it was like, you know, user creates account, like, check for product behavior, or centric or email, Check for product behavior, or centric or email.

Gabby [0:42:12]: Where now, like, ideally, we'll move to this world where, like, you created an or whatever.

Gabby [0:42:17]: You create a a model where, like you fed it like, all the key moments for your product or whatever it is that you...

Gabby [0:42:22]: That your client needs did you take your client wants taking.

Gabby [0:42:25]: And like that, model can, like, just spit out in a timely manner, like, the action they need, you of complex like, like, complex thing where it's like, there's, like, ten product actions or ted actions on to take, and they've done one seven and nine, like, what the next best best thing is But, like, apart from like, I when we selling know, like, our data team and our marketing options to be like, how the heck could we built And like, but I'm like, I have a hard time con consuming, like, how you would How do you...

Gabby [0:42:48]: How does one bill something like this?

Gabby [0:42:49]: Like, do you do you have any any ideas?

Alyssa [0:42:52]: I don't know about building it in house but I do know that there are quite a few, like, basically extensions that would be added onto to your inbox provider.

Alyssa [0:42:57]: I've tested out a few of them, mainly in the Dd space.

Alyssa [0:43:00]: I don't know if any that are really working proficient for B2b yet just because it's a different kind of messaging usually, but it is really cool to see where it's going, and I do think that that will become a little bit more readily available.

Alyssa [0:43:10]: I'm gonna think on that.

Alyssa [0:43:11]: And I actually...

Alyssa [0:43:11]: I'll I'll send out.

Alyssa [0:43:12]: I'll maybe post some leaf to if I think of anything help But I'll I'll get back to you on how you could start building that out in B2b.

Alyssa [0:43:18]: Because I know that it's happening in the D space.

Joe [0:43:21]: Yeah.

Joe [0:43:21]: I'll get some...

Joe [0:43:21]: I'll give us some thought to, Gabby.

Joe [0:43:23]: It's a really good question.

Joe [0:43:25]: Yeah.

Joe [0:43:26]: But I don't have a good answer for your, now.

Joe [0:43:28]: Cool.

Joe [0:43:28]: Sorry.

Gabby [0:43:30]: Boy Lincoln post.

Joe [0:43:32]: Yeah.

Gabby [0:43:34]: It feels like

Alyssa [0:43:34]: one of those things we're on the cusp of, and it's like, you can feel so excited.

Alyssa [0:43:37]: It's how I imagine people felt about, like, saying we were going to space.

Alyssa [0:43:40]: Right?

Alyssa [0:43:40]: It's like, I can see that it's gonna happen, but Are, we there.

Alyssa [0:43:43]: I don't know.

Joe [0:43:45]: Yeah.

Joe [0:43:45]: Because there was, like, so much the big thing that keeps coming up for a lot of clients I can talk to you more recently is data.

Joe [0:43:54]: Like, the list data, where is it coming from?

Joe [0:43:58]: Where is a living?

Joe [0:43:59]: What tools they interacting with, like, how you get data from Salesforce and Gong in Hubspot kinda something be working together and talking together, updating regularly like.

Joe [0:44:09]: Mh.

Joe [0:44:09]: Think there's a lot of...

Joe [0:44:11]: There's definitely a lot of to do there, but, yeah, I think it would...

Joe [0:44:14]: I had that think got it because it's it's complicated.

Alyssa [0:44:18]: And adding to That point you, I think the problem that people are running into is it running away with it.

Alyssa [0:44:23]: It's not supposed to have in freaking out.

Alyssa [0:44:24]: Subscribe.

Joe [0:44:26]: Yes.

Joe [0:44:26]: That's big one.

Alyssa [0:44:27]: And this Those information about themselves is now being repeated back to them.

Jess [0:44:31]: And just

Gabby [0:44:31]: like, whoa.

Gabby [0:44:32]: Whoa.

Gabby [0:44:32]: Whoa.

Gabby [0:44:32]: Whoa.

Joe [0:44:34]: That's big one.

Alyssa [0:44:35]: Yeah.

Alyssa [0:44:35]: I think that's one of the perks kind of being wrestled with right now.

Joe [0:44:39]: For sure.

Jess [0:44:40]: I have some some good questions on the Q and a I think kind of related.

Jess [0:44:43]: But, what's the best practice for number of in app guides during the first thirty, sixty days, and etcetera, and new benefits with features.

Jess [0:44:52]: Like, best practice for, like, the number, I guess of, like, in at things that happened in the first thirty to sixty days, as someone gets into a into a product.

Gabby [0:45:03]: We've have been burned on this.

Gabby [0:45:04]: Like, we had something happen where our...

Gabby [0:45:07]: We...

Gabby [0:45:07]: I mean, right now our our onboarding team on the product side has, like a lot of, like, in product in apps.

Gabby [0:45:12]: They're not even in apps that we're sending natively we have platform there, like, the engineering team built them.

Gabby [0:45:15]: So I think you, like, I mean, sam, I'm not sure what what you're...

Gabby [0:45:19]: What the ui you're building off of is like.

Gabby [0:45:21]: But what's the website or whatever, like, you should try...

Gabby [0:45:24]: You know, you wanna be aware of like, what already are the, like, things that are calling for attention on the screen, when you're putting it in apps and.

Gabby [0:45:30]: Like, turn closer to your team to make sure that, like, we definitely have issues sometimes for, like, multiple teams or, like, sending out in apps about different things and really seem to pertain different life, Like, cycle so, I think it's always the really difficult struggle of, like, we wanna be respectful, but, like, I need to make sure that my voice has heard a month, amidst all the other teams or all the other people that are, like, sending in apps in the same moment.

Gabby [0:45:51]: So just trying to be respectful fund working closely with your team and, like, like, joe mentioned, like, segmenting really strongly, like, only shows in enough those people clicked into that page and, like, showed interest in exactly.

Jess [0:46:02]: It's, like, driven mainly by behavior triggers first and foremost, so then you feel like, confident that this is a need.

Jess [0:46:08]: And then, you know, I know when I worked in, like, a P org that we were very careful about the messages we sent in app and very intentional to not, like, flood it too much because then they could start to get ignored.

Jess [0:46:25]: So it was, like, maybe major feature updates if they weren't behavioral triggered.

Jess [0:46:29]: But, like, I think if they're just really helpful, like, the person hasn't done the next thing from that step.

Jess [0:46:35]: You know, in a certain amount of days is, can you send them like a guide or some direction on on where to go?

Jess [0:46:43]: Because you know, being on the user side of it, it's definitely helpful to have those come up sometimes when you're, like, trying to navigate through and learn?

Jess [0:46:51]: But, like, sounds like there's, like, no perfect answer, but but I think it's good to just be intentional.

Joe [0:46:57]: Yeah.

Joe [0:46:57]: And almost like, just from a, kind of more maybe more of a messaging side, like, but also the, you know, the kind of their own user journey side.

Joe [0:47:06]: What is the...

Joe [0:47:07]: What are those micro yes so those micro wins that get them closer to that job to be done?

Joe [0:47:14]: And how do you help them hit those many, like milestones?

Joe [0:47:19]: So maybe like micro achievements?

Joe [0:47:21]: I think actually like, a lie.

Joe [0:47:23]: Mh.

Joe [0:47:23]: Try to think of fair A specific example, I think Zap is pretty good at this.

Joe [0:47:28]: One night when you first sign up for, like, you know, Zapier, they are pretty good about helping you just send your first zap.

Joe [0:47:36]: And then send your, like, plug in your first, you know, integration and at those little steps get you...

Joe [0:47:43]: One of the things, like, the more I use tech the more, I realized, like, it is hard to get people to use tech.

Joe [0:47:51]: Like, it there...

Joe [0:47:52]: It does take a lot of encouraging and education.

Joe [0:47:56]: Like, we...

Joe [0:47:56]: It's so easy to assume that your users lay also know more about the platform that they...

Joe [0:48:02]: Than they do which depending on how they heard about it, whether was from a team member or, like, someone else bought the platform and then they joined later and they're like, oh, we've gotta learn this new tool now.

Joe [0:48:12]: Like, there's a.

Joe [0:48:14]: It's

Jess [0:48:15]: really true.

Jess [0:48:15]: There's a

Joe [0:48:16]: lot that goes into that that by...

Joe [0:48:18]: That user's context and what those how you get it to plug into their workflow.

Joe [0:48:23]: How you show it how you show it plugs into their workflow, obviously, and as easily as possible.

Joe [0:48:29]: And then how do you help them start like, using it daily?

Joe [0:48:33]: Yeah.

Joe [0:48:34]: Like, I don't know this it...

Joe [0:48:35]: I'm, this is just a...

Joe [0:48:36]: I've been thinking about a lot.

Joe [0:48:37]: Not like I have a really good answer for it, but...

Joe [0:48:40]: Yeah.

Joe [0:48:40]: Like, well, what does that journey look like?

Joe [0:48:43]: You know?

Joe [0:48:43]: Like, how can you cut how can, like, doing your, like, product team kinda map that out.

Joe [0:48:47]: How can you help people get closer to...

Jess [0:48:50]: Yeah.

Joe [0:48:51]: Actually using it, seeing wins with it.

Jess [0:48:53]: Like, if if they only knew what it could do.

Jess [0:48:56]: Yeah.

Jess [0:48:56]: I think the use cases too are really helpful because...

Jess [0:48:59]: So it's, like, if you only knew what you could do, you're your loop...

Jess [0:49:03]: You're using this at, like, this layer.

Jess [0:49:04]: But it's it's hard to know what you don't know.

Jess [0:49:07]: So I think that's where the use cases are so critical to share to see that this is exactly how it can be done versus just a feature.

Jess [0:49:15]: Explain of, like, here's this feature we have.

Jess [0:49:17]: It's, like, here's how seven different customers are using this feature.

Jess [0:49:22]: That starts to give them ideas for how they could use it themselves.

Jess [0:49:25]: I think that...

Jess [0:49:26]: That's the that's the big key for that.

Joe [0:49:29]: So good.

Jess [0:49:30]: This is a good one too, but they want us to rip to r on what L m's we're using for what connected to email and Sms.

Jess [0:49:38]: And and app.

Jess [0:49:39]: I guess just like the entire flow.

Jess [0:49:41]: Mh.

Jess [0:49:41]: I have I have a few in my mind, but I feel like Gabby mentioned some good ones too, like, Na.

Jess [0:49:46]: And is it Nate or is it any it?

Jess [0:49:48]: We don't have to discuss this here, but I don't know.

Gabby [0:49:51]: It's not

Jess [0:49:54]: Yeah my Sunday.

Jess [0:49:54]: And I felt like I was, yeah.

Jess [0:49:56]: How how are you...

Jess [0:49:57]: Like, are you using Claude, Son?

Jess [0:49:59]: Or are you using chat?

Jess [0:50:01]: Like, what are you using for what?

Gabby [0:50:04]: I can start.

Gabby [0:50:05]: I sometimes use claude for the...

Gabby [0:50:06]: Are the customer Mc server because Chad Is, like, really lagging with Mc p servers, but Chad.

Gabby [0:50:12]: Like, when of my teammates has developed a really good, like, voice brand guide for us that, like, is really easy to use and also, like, it is so much...

Gabby [0:50:19]: I think it's what you start building and then like, oh, no.

Gabby [0:50:21]: I've tell the knowledge in, like, Clutter here.

Gabby [0:50:23]: So I better keep using that.

Gabby [0:50:24]: So I

Jess [0:50:26]: so true.

Gabby [0:50:26]: I'm, like, trying to playing a chat Things, like, help me with analyzing my, like, the revenue metrics attract, like, email engagement, so I feel like I've invested a out there, but I think so many of them are very similar much to each other right now.

Jess [0:50:38]: Yeah.

Jess [0:50:38]: Yeah.

Jess [0:50:39]: And then you get comfortable in one.

Jess [0:50:40]: I I just...

Jess [0:50:41]: I gotta add one to the list.

Jess [0:50:42]: If there's...

Jess [0:50:43]: Just go check out Notebook L.

Jess [0:50:44]: It's like Chat t and Google Drive had a baby.

Jess [0:50:47]: So it it works just like Chat, but only from your sources I don't know if that was the best analogy.

Jess [0:50:54]: But only from your sources, and you can upload, like, three hundred sources into it, and it's, like...

Jess [0:51:00]: And then you chat it.

Jess [0:51:01]: So which...

Jess [0:51:02]: So it just doesn't.

Jess [0:51:03]: It removes like that piece of it, which can be kind of frustrating sometimes.

Jess [0:51:06]: Do, like, don't have a hundred percent trust, but it can create, like, mind maps of it with, like, the click of a button podcast.

Jess [0:51:13]: Like, I think a lot of product marketers use it.

Jess [0:51:15]: A lot of marketers use it for a bunch of different use cases, but that would be a a top one on my list.

Joe [0:51:22]: That's good to know.

Joe [0:51:23]: Because I've been using claude mostly more recently.

Jess [0:51:27]: Like cloud projects?

Joe [0:51:29]: Yeah.

Joe [0:51:29]: Cloud projects.

Joe [0:51:30]: And they...

Joe [0:51:32]: Like, it's still hall, it's quite a bit.

Joe [0:51:33]: Even when I tell it explicitly like, hey, refer to this document.

Joe [0:51:36]: It'll make stuff up.

Joe [0:51:38]: Like, where do you get it?

Joe [0:51:38]: It's, like, yeah, I'm sorry.

Joe [0:51:39]: I totally me ended that up.

Joe [0:51:40]: Like...

Joe [0:51:41]: So yeah.

Jess [0:51:44]: Yes.

Jess [0:51:44]: Yes.

Jess [0:51:44]: Yes.

Jess [0:51:45]: Yes.

Joe [0:51:45]: Few knows pillows it as much.

Joe [0:51:47]: Like

Jess [0:51:49]: at all.

Jess [0:51:49]: Because it's it's literally...

Jess [0:51:50]: It's not what...

Jess [0:51:51]: It's not doing any data scraping.

Jess [0:51:52]: It's just...

Jess [0:51:53]: So if you have a lot of sources, like input sources, like, I even know, like, sales reps that are using it to build rfp piece.

Jess [0:51:59]: Because, like, they have all of, like, their decks and their videos, all of, like, their customer, like, you could put three at, like, you can make a debt a database from it essentially.

Jess [0:52:07]: So it's like there's so many ways that you can use it, but it's only pulling from the source you'd give it.

Jess [0:52:11]: So if you don't give it the source, it it won't have that information from you.

Jess [0:52:15]: But over time, at what's really nice too is it syncs with Google.

Jess [0:52:18]: So if you're, like, adding stuff to a document about your, you just sync in and it's in your notebook.

Jess [0:52:23]: I'm telling you.

Jess [0:52:25]: This everyone this one is been, like, a game changer.

Joe [0:52:29]: Yeah.

Joe [0:52:29]: Oh, that's good.

Jess [0:52:30]: That's a good room.

Jess [0:52:31]: I know we're at three minutes left.

Jess [0:52:33]: So let me see on, this q and a.

Joe [0:52:35]: Can I quickly throw?

Jess [0:52:38]: Yeah.

Jess [0:52:38]: Got

Joe [0:52:39]: it.

Joe [0:52:39]: I was

Jess [0:52:39]: gonna saying Ahead.

Joe [0:52:41]: One more quick thing on r on L.

Joe [0:52:42]: So I use club projects, and I let...

Joe [0:52:46]: Like, one of the things I love doing is having...

Joe [0:52:49]: I have an email messaging brief, which goes pretty deep into important parts of building your messaging for your emails.

Joe [0:52:56]: Like, the audience but also things like unique mechanism.

Joe [0:53:00]: What's unique mechanism of your particular products your particular webinar, like, getting into the the differentiator and the the value props of that what you're offering.

Joe [0:53:09]: Stuff like that.

Joe [0:53:10]: So I have a I have a brief.

Joe [0:53:11]: I give Claude a bunch of context and data around that to go to audience, that client, whatever.

Joe [0:53:18]: And then I basically have fill out a brief for me, and it helps me structure some really good.

Joe [0:53:24]: Email promo campaigns for, like, webinars stuff like that.

Jess [0:53:29]: Love that.

Jess [0:53:29]: Alright.

Jess [0:53:30]: Well, for...

Jess [0:53:31]: There's a...

Jess [0:53:33]: Yeah.

Jess [0:53:33]: That's a great call out.

Jess [0:53:34]: I wrote that down, Joe to fill out the brief.

Jess [0:53:37]: Folks, please rate today's session as highly as possible, and I'm kidding.

Jess [0:53:41]: Would be great to to to see, everyone's feedback here?

Jess [0:53:46]: We really take take it seriously and just please vote.

Jess [0:53:49]: The other one, the other question was, can you recommend resources for finding a freelance, fractional marketer with strong familiarity with or Io segments and campaigns or, like somewhere to find them or just go straight to the source.

Gabby [0:54:07]: I think I replied to job to Joshua, but you

Jess [0:54:09]: you could did.

Jess [0:54:10]: Oh, yeah.

Jess [0:54:10]: Yeah Here.

Gabby [0:54:12]: I just first speaking for you in touch.

Gabby [0:54:13]: Like work your customer around the password.

Jess [0:54:16]: Yeah.

Jess [0:54:16]: Perfect email down.

Jess [0:54:18]: Okay.

Joe [0:54:18]: Great.

Jess [0:54:19]: That was

Gabby [0:54:19]: a little bit.

Jess [0:54:20]: Awesome.

Jess [0:54:20]: Ten seconds left.

Jess [0:54:22]: So really going down to the wire on this one.

Jess [0:54:24]: Protecting your reputation with engagement blah, that might be too long.

Jess [0:54:28]: To answer.

Alyssa [0:54:30]: Alright.

Alyssa [0:54:30]: And then you last folks?

Alyssa [0:54:31]: I think that...

Jess [0:54:32]: I was like, oh, that was so good.

Jess [0:54:33]: Can you say more about ideas for how to balance protecting your reputation for Hubspot or where whatever you're doing domain is, prioritizing engaged contacts while continuing to send to lurk.

Joe [0:54:47]: I feel like I let's say gabby could have to really get thoughts on this.

Joe [0:54:49]: I'll just say quickly, I think having a plan for...

Joe [0:54:52]: It's good.

Joe [0:54:53]: I think it's good to re engage people or try to re engage people, so keep to monitoring those, like, thirty day, sixty day plus engagement cohorts and inviting them to sign up for your newsletter.

Joe [0:55:05]: They don't just opt them in.

Joe [0:55:06]: Invite them to sign for the newsletter or, like, whatever it is you want them, that that thing you want them to do, do that.

Joe [0:55:13]: Send those emails.

Joe [0:55:14]: If you're sending promotions, people click on something, but they don't actually go through with it, send re retargeting emails.

Joe [0:55:20]: Like, when of my clients do that and install a lot of assess from those, like, re targeted emails.

Joe [0:55:25]: But also I for phasing those inactive out too.

Joe [0:55:28]: If people are really not, like, if you have tried re engaging them, they're just on engaging, I think it's called, like a sunset policy or something or something, but have that have that policy in place.

Joe [0:55:39]: Have a plan for facebook

Jess [0:55:41]: sunset well.

Joe [0:55:42]: So flow.

Joe [0:55:42]: Because it doesn't make sense to keep emailing people who are not engaging, probably do, you know, if you, like, touches, but, like, facing that.

Joe [0:55:50]: Otherwise, is that pool drag on

Jess [0:55:53]: Yeah.

Joe [0:55:53]: Build your deliver durability and stuff.

Jess [0:55:55]: Yeah.

Jess [0:55:55]: For sure.

Jess [0:55:56]: Well all, great points, guys.

Jess [0:55:58]: This was this was super helpful.

Jess [0:55:59]: I learned a ton.

Jess [0:56:00]: Thank you.

Jess [0:56:01]: I know we're we're over time that I just wanted to to get us to as many questions as I could.

Jess [0:56:05]: But, thank you.

Jess [0:56:07]: Thank you to the guests.

Jess [0:56:08]: Alyssa Joe Gabby.

Jess [0:56:09]: Thank you, Crest our sponsors.

Jess [0:56:10]: The awesome people engaging in the chat.

Jess [0:56:13]: This is this was really fun.

Jess [0:56:15]: So thanks everyone.

Jess [0:56:16]: The recording will be sent afterwards and We'll see you on the next one.

Alyssa [0:56:21]: So fun.

Alyssa [0:56:22]: Thanks.

Joe [0:56:22]: Sounds good.

Joe [0:56:22]: Thank you so much.

Joe [0:56:23]: Thanks, Gia.

Joe [0:56:24]: Gabby.

Joe [0:56:25]: Have a

Jess [0:56:25]: good evening.

Joe [0:56:26]: You too.

Jess [0:56:27]: Bye.

Dave [0:56:31]: Hey.

Dave [0:56:31]: Thanks for listening.

Dave [0:56:32]: This podcast.

Dave [0:56:33]: If you like this episode.

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Dave [0:56:34]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.

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