#308: How To Create Urgency, Build Pipeline, and Make Outbound Work (with Jen Allen-Knuth, Founder of DemandJen)

#308 Sales Alignment | In this session from Drive 2025 titled “Building Pipeline in the Shiny Object Era”,  unpacks why deals stall even when your product is objectively better, how the explosion of shiny tools and AI noise is making it worse, and why most teams are unintentionally fueling the problem with me-centric messaging. Jen shares the two zero-dollar exercises every team should run to quantify how much pipeline they’re losing today, align sales and marketing around the true blocker, and rebuild outbound messaging that creates curiosity.

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Dave [0:00:00]: You're listening to B2b marketing with me, Dave Gerhardt.

Dave [0:00:03]: Hey, it's Dave Quick note.

Dave [0:00:18]: Before we get into this episode.

Dave [0:00:19]: This is a recording from drive twenty twenty five, our annual event.

Dave [0:00:23]: Here at Exit Five.

Dave [0:00:25]: This was recorded live in Burlington Vermont at Hula as part of our event.

Dave [0:00:29]: And we'd love to have you at next year's event.

Dave [0:00:31]: We're bringing it back to Vermont stove vermont.

Dave [0:00:33]: You can go to Exit Five dot com slash drive to get more information.

Dave [0:00:38]: Put your name on the waitlist list and maybe make it to next year's event.

Dave [0:00:41]: But we're bringing the audio recordings from these sessions to you live, well, recorded on the podcast because we thought it'd be a fun way to show you the stuff.

Dave [0:00:50]: We talk about a drive and give you a sense of what it was like if you didn't get to be there.

Dave [0:00:54]: And if you were there, then you get to now re listen and maybe take notes again.

Dave [0:00:58]: So this is one of the sessions from Drive.

Dave [0:00:59]: Go and check it out.

Dave [0:01:01]: Get tickets, put your name in the wait list for next year Exit Five dot com slash drive.

Dave [0:01:06]: Our next speaker, this is somebody I've gotten to know through the the joy of Linkedin over the last couple years.

Dave [0:01:11]: Since this is a room, How many people work in marketing in this room just real quick.

Dave [0:01:15]: Alright.

Dave [0:01:16]: Shit.

Dave [0:01:17]: You might have to see yourself out, ma'am, So since we all work with salespeople in our day to day, I thought it would be, you know, useful to hear from someone in that in that world.

Dave [0:01:28]: So we asked Jen to come to drive.

Dave [0:01:30]: After eighteen years as a frontline seller at corporate executive board and the challenger sales she saw firsthand that one of the biggest threats to close one deals, wasn't the competition.

Dave [0:01:39]: It was buyer status quo or the annoying ass ceo can't get out of his own way.

Dave [0:01:45]: She went on to become the chief of Evangelist of challenger and head of community growth Lavender now she's the founder of DemandJen where she trains.

Dave [0:01:53]: Sales teams on how to un stick stall deals create status quo busting outbound messages, align the buying team for change and avoid the tragic fate of losing to no decisions.

Dave [0:02:02]: She's here to talk about building pipeline in the shiny object era, she rocks.

Dave [0:02:08]: Please give it up for a Jen Allen Knuth.

Dave [0:02:10]: That's

Dave [0:02:13]: better.

Dave [0:02:13]: Get fuck I think.

Jen [0:02:26]: Always wanna walk on stage to Brown.

Jen [0:02:29]: So here we are dreams coming true.

Jen [0:02:31]: First fall, it is wonderful to be here.

Jen [0:02:33]: Before we talk about any of this stuff.

Jen [0:02:35]: I wanna take a moment to acknowledge someone and something.

Jen [0:02:38]: So I...

Jen [0:02:40]: Think for many of you that know me, I'm a massive rescue dog bet.

Jen [0:02:44]: Like...

Jen [0:02:45]: If you know me, if you follow me if we're connected Linkedin, I post every Saturday about a different recipe dog.

Jen [0:02:49]: It's a huge passion either that many of if you don't know where it started.

Jen [0:02:52]: It started thirteen years ago when I adapted my first dog mugs z.

Jen [0:02:55]: K?

Jen [0:02:56]: Now mugs z, I got for a shelter.

Jen [0:02:58]: When I was thirty, I don't know what y'all were doing your thirty.

Jen [0:03:01]: I was an animal.

Jen [0:03:02]: Like, I probably would have benefited from being locked up in a shelter kennel for my own good.

Jen [0:03:08]: And Mugs z, my very first dog gave me a totally new sense of purpose.

Jen [0:03:12]: And he gave me a cause to be passionate about something I care about.

Jen [0:03:15]: So why am I telling you this?

Jen [0:03:16]: Well, many of you maybe have noticed that I just showed up today.

Jen [0:03:19]: I was supposed be hear on Tuesday?

Jen [0:03:21]: I was supposed to say till Friday I was so pumped because there's so many people in this room that I'm so excited to meet and see in real life, and And on Monday, I got some pretty devastating news.

Jen [0:03:29]: And basically walked into a bad appointment and walked out hearing that my dog has an in inseparable tumor on his jaw, And there's really nothing we can do about it, which is a shitty place to be frankly when you feel helpless.

Jen [0:03:40]: And so, frantically, I email Dave.

Jen [0:03:44]: And I'm like, Dave, I know you're probably, like, boxing up a bunch of shit to come here and they're doing all the things, but it's okay if I get there really late Wednesday.

Jen [0:03:52]: I miss a bunch of stuff.

Jen [0:03:54]: And then do my talk on Thursday shorten it to forty five minutes not an hour and the run out of here.

Jen [0:03:59]: Now, Dave, and I've never met in person.

Jen [0:04:01]: And I am, like, a total warrior.

Jen [0:04:04]: So I'm thinking he's gonna be, like, course your fl.

Jen [0:04:06]: You're a salesperson.

Jen [0:04:07]: I knew I shouldn't invited you to this thing.

Jen [0:04:09]: I knew it.

Jen [0:04:10]: But Dave responded with one of the kind responses ever.

Jen [0:04:13]: He said, of course no problem.

Jen [0:04:15]: I'm so glad that you're making time to be there for what's important.

Jen [0:04:19]: Shit

Dave [0:04:25]: and I said I used that super...

Dave [0:04:27]: I use super Ai that email like Nigel.

Jen [0:04:30]: He's like, I replied.

Jen [0:04:31]: I want button.

Jen [0:04:32]: Oh, and so I just think, like, we're in the middle of a crazy week right now.

Jen [0:04:37]: It feels weird to stand up here and not acknowledge it.

Jen [0:04:39]: I think, like, we all have our handful of shit, whether it's personal shit, whether it's shit on...

Jen [0:04:44]: At the job whether it's, like me got four dogs and it's actual feces that you're picking up all of the time, all of the time, and we all of our shit, and I think it's just so important that we have moments like this and events like this and communities like this because this is what I think it actually matters.

Jen [0:04:59]: The stuff that matters.

Jen [0:05:00]: So I just wanna shout out Dave for being an incredible human being, making him blush.

Jen [0:05:07]: So with that, talked a lot about shit in the first two minutes here.

Jen [0:05:13]: So let's keep that theme going.

Jen [0:05:16]: Speaking of dealing with shit, Raise your hand if you deal with your sales team inside of your business.

Jen [0:05:20]: Okay.

Jen [0:05:21]: Lots of you.

Jen [0:05:22]: Wonderful.

Jen [0:05:22]: Dave as he mentioned thought would be a fun idea to bring a different perspective up.

Jen [0:05:26]: So I've been a lifelong seller.

Jen [0:05:28]: I worked with sales teams all the time now, companies big and small.

Jen [0:05:30]: And I think it's always been the case that a lot of times were at odds with each other.

Jen [0:05:35]: Right?

Jen [0:05:35]: Sales versus marketing, we're finger pointing each other.

Jen [0:05:37]: What I hope to do in the forty minutes that I've got for you today is to give us a common enemy to rally around.

Jen [0:05:44]: And that is the enemy of buyer status quo.

Jen [0:05:47]: I'm big on tactical stuff, so I'm gonna spend a few minutes talking about the problem of building pipeline in what I lovingly Referred to as the shiny object arrow, which is the era we're living in where literally every second, there's a new game changing, revolutionary technology that up ends the way that work gets done, what that means and how that's playing out differently on the sales side because I don't think this is something we can win in sales alone or in marketing alone.

Jen [0:06:11]: I do believe it's where we're best served by being aligned.

Jen [0:06:13]: So I'm gonna give you a couple ideas.

Jen [0:06:15]: I'm gonna give you two zero dollar exercises.

Jen [0:06:17]: They are my favorite kind of exercise.

Jen [0:06:19]: They don't cost you anything.

Jen [0:06:20]: That I hope you take back to your business to really get after this problem.

Jen [0:06:23]: Now before we do that.

Jen [0:06:25]: We have to dispel a myth.

Jen [0:06:27]: Okay?

Jen [0:06:28]: And I need your help to do it.

Jen [0:06:30]: I want you to think of any Tv show, movie, you have ever seen that portrays a salesperson and tell me who comes to mind.

Jen [0:06:41]: My girl, do dwight I true?

Jen [0:06:45]: Tommy Boy, what else?

Jen [0:06:46]: Glenn Gary Gun ross, You Michael Scott.

Jen [0:06:52]: Who else?

Jen [0:06:53]: Ben A, I haven't heard that.

Jen [0:06:56]: What's he?

Jen [0:06:57]: Oh, duh.

Jen [0:06:58]: Sorry.

Jen [0:06:59]: I should totally have seen that movie as a salesperson.

Jen [0:07:01]: Okay.

Jen [0:07:02]: So if you think about all of those people with the exception of maybe Dwight and Tommy.

Jen [0:07:06]: Many of those people have the people that come to mind for me.

Jen [0:07:08]: Right?

Jen [0:07:09]: They are closer.

Jen [0:07:11]: So you've got Don Draper who's actually more of a marketing guy that I would put them in the sales bucket, you've got, like, Jordan Be, Doesn't even anyone say him the Wolf of Wall Street.

Jen [0:07:21]: And you got Glen Glen ross.

Jen [0:07:23]: Right?

Jen [0:07:24]: You got all these people.

Jen [0:07:25]: And miss portrayal of sales people is largely why I never wanted to go into sales because I didn't see myself.

Jen [0:07:31]: In this because the way they portray it in Tv and movies is, like, all you have to do to be good at sales is just be up like, middle aged white dude, put on of really fancy suit, walking our room, say the magic words and close the deal.

Jen [0:07:43]: It's all about charisma Now, when we think about reality, in the twenty one years I'm I've spent selling, it is rarely these people that are winning in sales.

Jen [0:07:53]: Right?

Jen [0:07:54]: Because you could spot them a mile away, and we personally don't really enjoy spending time with these folks.

Jen [0:07:59]: Right?

Jen [0:07:59]: I mean, some of you may and there's weirdo in every room, but most of us don't enjoy that.

Jen [0:08:04]: What I find interesting is if you look at the data.

Jen [0:08:06]: So there is a study that Linkedin did a couple years ago.

Jen [0:08:09]: And it talks about what are the most valuable qualities that you value in a salesperson Look for charisma is on the bottom.

Jen [0:08:17]: I made it really easy.

Jen [0:08:18]: I put a big old red arrow there.

Jen [0:08:19]: It's at the absolute bottom of the list.

Jen [0:08:22]: And when you look at what's at the top, it's trustworthiness.

Jen [0:08:24]: It's transparency.

Jen [0:08:26]: Problem solving ability, understanding of the industry.

Jen [0:08:31]: In my opinion, that's stuff has very little to do with closing.

Jen [0:08:35]: That's the stuff that has to do with opening a deal.

Jen [0:08:39]: Yet, if we look at how we've treated pipeline generation, demand generation, whatever we wanna call it.

Jen [0:08:45]: Often, we give it to the least experienced people in the business are loving Sdr str.

Jen [0:08:50]: Or now we're like, hell, let's nobody touch it.

Jen [0:08:53]: Like, let's let Ai do.

Jen [0:08:54]: Because we...

Jen [0:08:54]: Not like, none of us wanna be involved in this thing.

Jen [0:08:56]: Right?

Jen [0:08:56]: We treat it as an afterthought.

Jen [0:08:58]: When in reality, I think anytime we meet someone.

Jen [0:09:02]: So I'm sure there are people here you wanted to meet, you would never make your introduction to that person and afterthought.

Jen [0:09:07]: But in sales and marketing often we do.

Jen [0:09:10]: And so this is a room of marketers, I'm talking about building pipeline but specifically building pipeline in the shiny object era to explain what I mean by that, I am going to use you as my loving example.

Jen [0:09:23]: Now I move got lots of different roles in the room, But many of you are probably familiar with Scott Brink marketing landscape map.

Jen [0:09:30]: Right?

Jen [0:09:31]: We all know it.

Jen [0:09:32]: Okay.

Jen [0:09:33]: Now when Scott Started doing this was back in two thousand eleven, there were a hundred and fifty different marketing technologies on one page, which is like goes against every powerpoint presentation design principle in, like, that ever existed.

Jen [0:09:45]: Right?

Jen [0:09:46]: There's a hundred and fifty logos was messy was loud.

Jen [0:09:48]: Fast forward to May of this year.

Jen [0:09:50]: It is fifteen thousand three hundred and eighty four logos on this page.

Jen [0:09:58]: Now you can see their boxed into each one of those boxes.

Jen [0:10:00]: And I think in sales and sometimes even in marketing, we tend to think about our direct competitors a lot.

Jen [0:10:06]: So who else is in my box that is a terrible thing to say stay in front of a public room.

Jen [0:10:10]: Who else in my box.

Jen [0:10:13]: And we have to defeat them and show how we're better than them.

Jen [0:10:17]: But in reality, what makes this so hard and y'all live this, so I know Preaching the choir is all of these people are trying to get a bit of your time, your attention and your money.

Jen [0:10:28]: Right?

Jen [0:10:29]: So even though they might think, well, these are only our competitors, it's really everybody on this page.

Jen [0:10:34]: And as more and more companies pop up, well, there anal a lot of companies out there being like, you know, we're probably like a strong three, but you should really consider us because we've got a great team.

Jen [0:10:44]: Everybody's claiming to be the leading provider of this.

Jen [0:10:47]: And the number one of that.

Jen [0:10:49]: And on the other end of it are y'all.

Jen [0:10:52]: Right?

Jen [0:10:53]: Probably sitting there with headphones on being like, shut up and leave me alone.

Jen [0:10:57]: It's why so many people say cold outbound his dead and all these things are dead.

Jen [0:11:01]: I strongly disagree with it.

Jen [0:11:02]: But on top of it, I know we have been taught to have a giant eruption for Ai.

Jen [0:11:10]: However, Ai is just making this worse because we've always had the stuff on the left.

Jen [0:11:18]: Like, let's talk Crm.

Jen [0:11:19]: Like, there's always been the Salesforce in the Hudson hubspot.

Jen [0:11:21]: And then as you move down, you've got these, like challenger software.

Jen [0:11:25]: And then you get some, like, vertical localized software, like, I just did a session with in tap, and they just focus Crm on professional services.

Jen [0:11:31]: And then you get, like, services software and then you start to see the startups ups pop up, early stage late stage.

Jen [0:11:36]: But now there's this crazy long tail.

Jen [0:11:39]: And it's not new.

Jen [0:11:40]: Right?

Jen [0:11:41]: We've always had the opportunity to build software in house, but it was too expensive.

Jen [0:11:45]: It required too much talent.

Jen [0:11:46]: And so it it's just often easier to say, like, we'll just buy it from someone else.

Jen [0:11:50]: But now, low code.

Jen [0:11:52]: No code.

Jen [0:11:53]: Whatever code we wanna put in front of it.

Jen [0:11:55]: Now there's this entire different category of saying, well, forget that.

Jen [0:12:00]: Just build it yourself.

Jen [0:12:01]: And we as humans we'd like to, like, fiddle and tinker and do all these things And so a salesperson perspective, even if we take the last page, not only am I competing for time attention and money against fifteen thousand other companies, now I got this on top of it.

Jen [0:12:17]: This is what I refer to as the shiny object era because if we are also screaming about how we have the best solution.

Jen [0:12:24]: We everybody tunes out.

Jen [0:12:25]: Right?

Jen [0:12:26]: It's like going to a concert Is just having conversation with some about concerts.

Jen [0:12:28]: So go into a concert and you got three acts performing at different ends, and then, like, this act wants more people, so they turn their music up louder.

Jen [0:12:36]: This act wants more people, so then they the reason, and then all by the end of, you're like, just get me out of here.

Jen [0:12:40]: Which I think is honestly the state of pipeline generation today.

Jen [0:12:43]: When we look at our natural response to this when we think about Pipe gen, I'm literally gonna lose my mind if I hear one more person say, well, let's just make more die.

Jen [0:12:53]: Let's make more dials.

Jen [0:12:55]: That'll solve it.

Jen [0:12:56]: Or let's send more emails or let's do social or let's do thing as if there's something that we do that no one else is figured out.

Jen [0:13:03]: There's a finite amount of channels here.

Jen [0:13:05]: Right?

Jen [0:13:05]: And just doubling down on more else worked before, like no dig against it, it's not as effective now.

Jen [0:13:11]: Would you agree?

Jen [0:13:12]: Like, screaming into the void is not a terribly effective way.

Jen [0:13:16]: So if you look at the data, what the data tells us is if you just look at the opportunities that are in your pipeline now.

Jen [0:13:23]: And your sales team's pipeline what's in there right now.

Jen [0:13:26]: Thirty eight percent of the opportunities that are in that pipeline right now will simply be lost to the buyer saying, hey, I might even agree that you a better way, but we're fine with good enough.

Jen [0:13:36]: That is a frustrating way to lose.

Jen [0:13:39]: When I was a salesperson, my number was probably more like sixty five seventy percent.

Jen [0:13:43]: I would've killed for thirty eight percent, but I was selling a sales methodology and ain't nobody in the world needs a sales methodology to keep their lights on.

Jen [0:13:48]: The problem for your sellers and the place where oftentimes sales teams don't fully understand it.

Jen [0:13:55]: Is no buyer in the world has ever hung up from a demo or a sales call and said thank you so much for the time, Jen, I have elected to choose status quo.

Jen [0:14:04]: Like that's a weird thing to say even though we do it all the time.

Jen [0:14:08]: Instead, they'll say things like let's read revisit at this in six months.

Jen [0:14:12]: Now when I a salesperson, I was like game on.

Jen [0:14:15]: I'm putting that six month mark reminder, I'm calling you on the freaking day because I'm diligent, and I'm hardworking working.

Jen [0:14:22]: And I want your business.

Jen [0:14:24]: And I'd call up and I'd say, hey, it's Jen.

Jen [0:14:27]: Not sure if you remember.

Jen [0:14:28]: We met six months ago.

Jen [0:14:29]: You said now would be a better time.

Jen [0:14:30]: Meanwhile, that buyer.

Jen [0:14:32]: Ten times out ten was probably thinking.

Jen [0:14:34]: I thought you'd be gone.

Jen [0:14:35]: I thought I'd be gone.

Jen [0:14:36]: I thought we could just like, avoid this entire situation because anytime we tell a salesperson know what do they do?

Jen [0:14:45]: They're trained to action handle who likes to be handled.

Jen [0:14:48]: Sometimes I like to be handled of not by a salesperson, not a by a salesperson.

Jen [0:14:53]: And so this is punching off in this some distant future, hoping this problem goes away.

Jen [0:14:58]: Second one, we don't have the budget.

Jen [0:15:00]: I loved hearing this because I'm like, that's not a knee problem.

Jen [0:15:03]: Let's a, buyer problem.

Jen [0:15:04]: Cheap.

Jen [0:15:05]: What this was actually was I have budget because when businesses have problems that are important in urgent.

Jen [0:15:11]: We find ways to get it done.

Jen [0:15:12]: This was just the buyer nicely saying to me.

Jen [0:15:14]: I just don't wanna budget for this because I actually don't think I need to do this right now.

Jen [0:15:18]: I gotta do this other stuff.

Jen [0:15:19]: I'll socializing and get back to you, Kiss a death.

Jen [0:15:22]: I move that puppy right forward in my forecast.

Jen [0:15:24]: I'm like, they are talking about it.

Jen [0:15:26]: No, they weren't.

Jen [0:15:27]: They were hanging up for me?

Jen [0:15:28]: They were going into five more calls And at the end of day, they're like, do I really wanna be the idiot that is gonna say, let me build a business case.

Jen [0:15:35]: Let me get twenty people to agree to doing this.

Jen [0:15:37]: Let me talk about Chic.

Jen [0:15:38]: No.

Jen [0:15:38]: It's just much easier to let it lie.

Jen [0:15:41]: The closest to the truth is probably we're good for now.

Jen [0:15:44]: And this is where it's so frustrating to watch this happen again because I watched it on my own deals all the time.

Jen [0:15:50]: Now sellers do what we're taught to do, which is objection handle.

Jen [0:15:54]: Now I'm gonna play out.

Jen [0:15:55]: Remember to sell me this pen scene from Wolf Wall Street.

Jen [0:15:58]: So it's gonna play out, sell me this pen in modern Sas times.

Jen [0:16:02]: So, Leo, We offer a revolutionary solution for scalable handwriting workflows.

Jen [0:16:10]: Meanwhile, your buyers like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Jen [0:16:15]: I think you might be talking about.

Jen [0:16:17]: I Alright.

Jen [0:16:17]: I I already have a pen.

Jen [0:16:18]: I'm good.

Jen [0:16:19]: Status quo.

Jen [0:16:19]: Now objection handling, but but we were ranked a leader on Ga magic quadrant, we deliver a ten times Roi.

Jen [0:16:29]: Do you wanna see a case study about my pen?

Jen [0:16:32]: Whoa.

Jen [0:16:33]: I don't.

Jen [0:16:33]: Right?

Jen [0:16:33]: And and if you watch Jordan and Be, which I don't try to do a lot, but I did do one time.

Jen [0:16:38]: What he talks about?

Jen [0:16:39]: He's like, my goal was selling me this pen.

Jen [0:16:41]: Is just to figure out do you need a pen or not.

Jen [0:16:43]: And that's fine if you're selling something that someone wakes up in the morning and says, shit we ran out when where do we get more.

Jen [0:16:48]: But I don't know a lot of people who wake up and they're like, oh, my gosh.

Jen [0:16:52]: We're out of intelligent workflow solutions and where do I get more.

Jen [0:16:56]: We are selling things that are categorically disruptive and are different than what people have normalized in terms of, like, I need this because we're out.

Jen [0:17:05]: And so this type of logic, this type of sales conversation.

Jen [0:17:08]: This type of, like, let status quo up here and then we objection handle it really falls apart and it's why status quo wins more than we do.

Jen [0:17:16]: If you haven't picked up on that, I love Chris Farley.

Jen [0:17:18]: Okay?

Jen [0:17:18]: Now, when we let status quo come up in a deal.

Jen [0:17:24]: When we lead with our product, and we lead with how awesome it is and we talk their ear off, and we demo when we rush all that stuff.

Jen [0:17:30]: What we often fail to do what I failed to do a lot as a salesperson is ever help the prospect decide, do I even have a problem worth solving and we're solving right now?

Jen [0:17:41]: Because I can sit here and watch your cool tools and watch your cool technology and watch your Ai do its Ai thing.

Jen [0:17:47]: And I can hang up and make you think that I loved it and then realize like, as cool as it is.

Jen [0:17:53]: We've got a way to solve the problem and good as good enough.

Jen [0:17:56]: And so we're gonna take you is two sections.

Jen [0:18:00]: If we want to stop losing so much to status quo.

Jen [0:18:04]: It requires we do two things.

Jen [0:18:06]: One, requires as a business.

Jen [0:18:09]: We understand how big the status quo problem is for us right now.

Jen [0:18:14]: I'm gonna back you into a way to figure that out.

Jen [0:18:16]: And the number two, it requires that we help our customers our prospects understand how big their status quo is to them.

Jen [0:18:23]: Do the mental math on that.

Jen [0:18:24]: So the first part is about, like, kind of getting alignment with the sales organization.

Jen [0:18:28]: The second part is getting alignment with your customers.

Jen [0:18:29]: Now y'all all have Serums.

Jen [0:18:32]: Right?

Jen [0:18:33]: Just thought to be a stupid question to ask.

Jen [0:18:35]: Yes.

Jen [0:18:35]: Of course, we do.

Jen [0:18:36]: Alright.

Jen [0:18:36]: You Crm.

Jen [0:18:36]: When a seller loses a deal and they have to move it to close lost, what are some of the closed lost reason codes that y'all use Just shout it out.

Jen [0:18:44]: Could budget, timing, competitor.

Jen [0:18:49]: Implementation.

Jen [0:18:51]: Cold What?

Jen [0:18:53]: Cold.

Jen [0:18:54]: Went cold?

Jen [0:18:55]: What else?

Jen [0:18:56]: Empty?

Jen [0:18:58]: Like empty and our souls.

Jen [0:18:59]: We're just I'm antsy empty.

Jen [0:19:00]: I got nothing left.

Jen [0:19:01]: I gonna luck.

Jen [0:19:03]: Okay.

Jen [0:19:03]: So tell me of all of those reason codes that we just looked at, which one is the salesperson saying, y, I just didn't actually do that good of a job.

Jen [0:19:14]: Maybe cool...

Jen [0:19:17]: Yeah.

Jen [0:19:18]: Never is really answer.

Jen [0:19:19]: And that is because every seller who has ever carried a quota in history is the c author of this book.

Jen [0:19:26]: It's not my fault.

Jen [0:19:27]: It is somebody else's call.

Jen [0:19:30]: The problem here is we're asking salespeople people to grade their own homework.

Jen [0:19:34]: And we are never gonna throw ourselves under the bus.

Jen [0:19:37]: It's always...

Jen [0:19:37]: They don't have the budget, not, they have budget.

Jen [0:19:41]: They just didn't I didn't make a compelling enough argument that we should have some of it.

Jen [0:19:44]: It is...

Jen [0:19:45]: Lack of Roi.

Jen [0:19:46]: And the more concerning issue that I empathize for the people in this room is often then the finger goes not to the sales rep, but to y'all, which is like, we need to rethink our pricing not and we need more case studies, and we need more Roi and more and more more and more more feed the beast.

Jen [0:20:03]: Right?

Jen [0:20:04]: Like as if one case study from some random ball bearing manufacturer in, Wisconsin is going to solve the company's problems.

Jen [0:20:12]: And so you all end up getting blamed.

Jen [0:20:16]: Even though in most cases, when I'm working with sales teams, it's what's happening inside of the sales cycle And the unfortunate thing is it's totally preventable.

Jen [0:20:24]: Right?

Jen [0:20:24]: We lose deals, we could otherwise win.

Jen [0:20:27]: It's not that our product is not good enough.

Jen [0:20:29]: It's not that we don't have a good enough brand or fair enough price.

Jen [0:20:31]: We're just losing against status quo.

Jen [0:20:34]: And so if you look at it, the thing I wish I learned about sales sooner.

Jen [0:20:38]: Is sales is actually not that hard if you just understand basic human psychology.

Jen [0:20:43]: Like humans are the most predictable creatures in the world.

Jen [0:20:46]: And so what happens is time work we're met with uncertainty risk any of that we default to thinking about these two brains.

Jen [0:20:53]: So on the left, you've got your rational brains.

Jen [0:20:55]: So if I'm looking at a tool, maybe I inbound it.

Jen [0:20:58]: Let a alone outbound, and I'm listening to you and I'm like, man, this is like, a lot more than I signed up and I have to make a business case and I have to get other people on board, and I'm already so swamped and do I really wanna put my neck out on the emotional side of the brain, it's the what if monster.

Jen [0:21:12]: What if I do go through all that.

Jen [0:21:14]: I do all that work, I change how something is done today.

Jen [0:21:18]: And then people look around after and they're, like, why'd did you change it?

Jen [0:21:21]: I liked the old way.

Jen [0:21:22]: That's political capital.

Jen [0:21:24]: Now I'm risking.

Jen [0:21:25]: So these two things come together and, like, this is the most basic simple statement ever, but I don't think I really appreciate it as a salesperson is that we are often creating messaging around the idea of we are better.

Jen [0:21:37]: But I lost more than anything else to your right.

Jen [0:21:43]: You do have a better way.

Jen [0:21:45]: We got, like, Bob in the back doing sales training and he sucks at it.

Jen [0:21:49]: But Bob is good enough.

Jen [0:21:51]: And we're okay with good enough.

Jen [0:21:53]: All of a sudden, all this stuff we've been taught in sales breaks down, it is almost impossible to objection handle good enough.

Jen [0:22:00]: And when we try, it sounds like this.

Jen [0:22:03]: What if I give you a fifteen percent discount.

Jen [0:22:06]: But like, what is that about fifteen?

Jen [0:22:09]: We just always think, like, fifteen will do it?

Jen [0:22:11]: It's the way to do it.

Jen [0:22:12]: Right?

Jen [0:22:12]: So what if I just make this thing that you don't think you need a little bit cheaper.

Jen [0:22:15]: No?

Jen [0:22:16]: It's still too expensive?

Jen [0:22:17]: K?

Jen [0:22:18]: I'm note that as a salesperson.

Jen [0:22:19]: Well, what if I show you all these Roi study.

Jen [0:22:22]: Look at all this value everybody else, Scott?

Jen [0:22:25]: Don't don't even wanna be like them.

Jen [0:22:27]: As if we are not all picking our best customers and putting that in the Roi.

Jen [0:22:32]: Like, we're never being like, this was like a material rollout, but they were...

Jen [0:22:36]: They enjoyed it.

Jen [0:22:37]: This is how we respond.

Jen [0:22:41]: And then when we get know, we come back to you and we say, well, it's because we're too expensive, and it's because You don't have enough Roi stories.

Jen [0:22:49]: Please just show hands.

Jen [0:22:50]: It's just on my own weird curiosity.

Jen [0:22:51]: Like, how many times have you heard me knew more Roi, case studies.

Jen [0:22:54]: Grocery stores.

Jen [0:22:55]: I'm sorry.

Jen [0:22:56]: On behalf of the people that I work with.

Jen [0:22:58]: Okay.

Jen [0:22:58]: So first zero dollar exercise.

Jen [0:23:01]: A close loss audit it.

Jen [0:23:03]: Now, as a salesperson I to do this on my own territory.

Jen [0:23:06]: It is much better when you do it across the board.

Jen [0:23:08]: But if you have a tricky relationship with your sales team, maybe go to your best salesperson, start there, get them to be your grounds spa.

Jen [0:23:14]: It's very simple.

Jen [0:23:16]: All you're gonna do is you're gonna take any deal that has been closed lost between January and September eleventh.

Jen [0:23:24]: And you're gonna include the pipeline value that was forecasted for that.

Jen [0:23:28]: So you got the, you know, the deal pipeline value.

Jen [0:23:30]: And you're gonna filter it by anything that sounds a little bit like status quo.

Jen [0:23:35]: So unresponsive, budget.

Jen [0:23:39]: No champion, value, which is the weirdest close loss reason ever.

Jen [0:23:45]: Like, of course, value always in play.

Jen [0:23:46]: You're gonna take those and you're gonna filter that list for anything that kinda sounds like status quo.

Jen [0:23:50]: It's not exact science, but that will give you a rough estimate of how much we are currently losing to status quo today.

Jen [0:23:58]: And the reason that matters.

Jen [0:23:59]: So back in January, I was working with a really large company, Mart tech space, everyone would know, and they had never looked at their closed loss data that way.

Jen [0:24:07]: So I said, why don't you go back, look at twenty twenty four data through that lens.

Jen [0:24:11]: And they came back and they said we found fifty three million dollars of close lost opportunities due to status quo.

Jen [0:24:18]: And the most frustrating thing about that is the marketing team was absolutely being hammered if we need more pipeline.

Jen [0:24:23]: We need more pipeline.

Jen [0:24:24]: We need more pipeline Meanwhile, you got all this pipeline over here, we probably could do something with it.

Jen [0:24:29]: But the reason I did this with another legal tech company, they came back with much smaller.

Jen [0:24:33]: They came back with fifteen million.

Jen [0:24:35]: It's not to say we make those that go away.

Jen [0:24:37]: But if you make a ten percent dent in a fifty million dollar problem.

Jen [0:24:42]: I'm no mathematician, but I think that's like, five million dollars Like, that is a sizable opportunity.

Jen [0:24:47]: And so the way that I've done this with organizations, but you don't need me for it is to say, listen, I've been thinking a lot about our pipeline generation problem.

Jen [0:24:55]: I've been thinking about the opportunities we brought in, and I did some analysis to look at where I think we might be losing to status quo, and I'd like to just kinda go over with you.

Jen [0:25:05]: We don't have to talk at them.

Jen [0:25:06]: I think a lot of our problems in sales marketing alignment is talking at.

Jen [0:25:09]: But, like, let's look at this together Because what happens and what I've seen happen at time and time again is it gives us a a common enemy to fight against.

Jen [0:25:18]: Right?

Jen [0:25:19]: And I don't think anybody wants the answer to be like, let's just go build more new pipeline.

Jen [0:25:23]: We got this much sitting on the shelf today.

Jen [0:25:26]: So this is an exercise that can spark a really productive conversation with the sales team because the sales team doesn't want the answer to be build more pipeline either.

Jen [0:25:34]: I can tell you that right now.

Jen [0:25:35]: And so if we can come together and say let's size it, see how much status quo might be hurting us that gives us the opportunity to think differently about our messaging and how we go to market, which is part two.

Jen [0:25:46]: So you can't solve...

Jen [0:25:48]: Like, there's no point in solving a problem.

Jen [0:25:50]: Don't even do this section if you can't get alignment with the sales team that this is cost.

Jen [0:25:54]: Sting us first, like, that's why that part comes first is because you need alignment there.

Jen [0:25:59]: Once you get alignment, now it causes us to probably think a lot differently about our messaging.

Jen [0:26:04]: Now, I am not sure if you are aware we...

Jen [0:26:08]: Of a very serious epidemic.

Jen [0:26:10]: That is affecting everyone in sales, marketing, product.

Jen [0:26:14]: It is an epidemic that I referred to as the Wee problem.

Jen [0:26:18]: Okay?

Jen [0:26:18]: Now the Wee problem.

Jen [0:26:20]: I am a one person sales trainer.

Jen [0:26:22]: I am not, like, any of you in this room, you're way more important.

Jen [0:26:24]: You're way more, like your titles are sex year.

Jen [0:26:26]: This is my inbox.

Jen [0:26:27]: And the most common words you see in this preview text is I we our our company name, which means when we go to build pipeline, we are just we all over our prospects, all over them.

Jen [0:26:40]: Hey.

Jen [0:26:41]: We're talking about We.

Jen [0:26:42]: We're talking about dog feces.

Jen [0:26:43]: This is my talent.

Jen [0:26:44]: We are wee everywhere because that's what we've been like to believe that we need to do.

Jen [0:26:49]: Show how we have a better way and why we are so much better.

Jen [0:26:52]: Meanwhile, our competitor that we're trying to fight against is status quo.

Jen [0:26:56]: Status quote doesn't care if you're better.

Jen [0:26:58]: You can win the argument that you're better and still lose the deal.

Jen [0:27:01]: And so this means in my opinion, we have to think differently about our messaging strategy when status quo as a competitor.

Jen [0:27:10]: So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give us a fictional scenario where you all work for me now.

Jen [0:27:15]: This is the power trip that I have being on a stage.

Jen [0:27:17]: And I'm gonna walk you through how you go from a very wheel focused message.

Jen [0:27:23]: To a message where you don't talk about your company, your solution your product at all.

Jen [0:27:27]: And then I'm gonna organize it around the four questions that I don't care who you sell to how you sell what you sell.

Jen [0:27:33]: Everybody in this room can take back and answer on behalf of your organization.

Jen [0:27:38]: I would highly encourage you to answer it with sales with product with executive leadership because if you all do this in your little tight closing rooms and then come back and say, We're all gonna organ and reject it.

Jen [0:27:47]: So this is meant to be an exercise that we do together.

Jen [0:27:50]: So you work for me now.

Jen [0:27:53]: You work for jen's, pack, raincoat company.

Jen [0:27:57]: Now, Jen's pack raincoat coat company is a product where we have a raincoat coat like this big fits in your bag.

Jen [0:28:04]: Never have to remember the pack.

Jen [0:28:05]: It's always there.

Jen [0:28:06]: Keeps you drier.

Jen [0:28:07]: I'm, like an umbrella, your, you know, your umbrella, like invert in the rain that never happens.

Jen [0:28:12]: So in this scenario, we have a better way to stay dry.

Jen [0:28:15]: Now, side note, nobody in this room, I don't think is selling raincoat coats and competing against umbrellas, but you are.

Jen [0:28:23]: Because raise your hand if you own an umbrella.

Jen [0:28:26]: I'm just looking for the...

Jen [0:28:29]: You don't own an umbrella.

Jen [0:28:30]: You're like, you just, like, stone cold me to.

Jen [0:28:32]: You're like, no.

Jen [0:28:33]: I don't.

Jen [0:28:33]: Yeah.

Jen [0:28:35]: Sorry.

Jen [0:28:36]: Okay.

Jen [0:28:37]: Most of us own a umbrella.

Jen [0:28:39]: Most of us have a way to solve the problem just like your prospects.

Jen [0:28:41]: Like, people get this slight idea of we're gonna talk about cost of action a it.

Jen [0:28:45]: People get this idea of cost of an action, somehow means, like, cost of doing nothing.

Jen [0:28:49]: That's offensive.

Jen [0:28:50]: If someone has a known problem, they're not doing nothing about it.

Jen [0:28:53]: There's something they're doing.

Jen [0:28:54]: And so for many of us, The problem is staying dry.

Jen [0:28:57]: We have an umbrella for that, just like your prospects.

Jen [0:28:59]: If their problem is generating pipeline.

Jen [0:29:01]: They've got some taped together method for doing that.

Jen [0:29:05]: So what do you think happens when you pitch your very sexy, better way to stay dry raincoat that costs a hundred dollars?

Jen [0:29:15]: What are most people gonna say?

Jen [0:29:16]: I have an umbrella, and what else?

Jen [0:29:19]: Yeah.

Jen [0:29:21]: So cheap.

Jen [0:29:22]: This is expensive.

Jen [0:29:23]: Right?

Jen [0:29:24]: This is too expensive.

Jen [0:29:25]: If I was a salesperson selling on this raincoat code, I would be like, close lasting all my deals Like, too expensive, budget pricing.

Jen [0:29:30]: It's not me.

Jen [0:29:31]: It's them.

Jen [0:29:32]: So what we tend to do, and I can say this confidently because where I spend a lot of my time, Brendan loves this line.

Jen [0:29:39]: I am a per for cold email.

Jen [0:29:40]: I read cold emails from sellers all of the time.

Jen [0:29:45]: And I will tell you, maybe maybe not as extreme, but most emails I read, don't look that far off from this.

Jen [0:29:55]: So I just asked Chad teach to generate an email to sell this pack raincoat code.

Jen [0:29:59]: I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but I will tell you some highlights.

Jen [0:30:02]: Don't let inclement weather disrupt your outerwear workflow, rocket ship because we always need a rocket ship.

Jen [0:30:07]: Hope this message finds you well.

Jen [0:30:09]: A gents pap company we're revolution the precipitation preparedness land escape with our next gen Ai adjacent pack rain care solution built for scale optimized for agility.

Jen [0:30:18]: We understand your problems with surprise down cores and jacket inefficiencies.

Jen [0:30:23]: These are all our features, and we would just love to hop on a demo talk through the raincoat coat and share our recent white paper, disrupting drizzle how Outerwear wear is eating umbrellas.

Jen [0:30:32]: Stay dry.

Jen [0:30:34]: Zach, the drizzle disrupt, enterprise rain Evangelist.

Jen [0:30:37]: The future of dryness is now.

Jen [0:30:39]: Okay.

Jen [0:30:40]: Not every cold email is this bad, but I swear to you y'all.

Jen [0:30:45]: There are sellers on your teams right now they're sending trays you shit like this.

Jen [0:30:48]: Because if I don't have to write it and someone else will, I can be like well, this thought it was a good idea.

Jen [0:30:53]: So the the chore geography of this email is what we need to stop.

Jen [0:30:57]: Right?

Jen [0:30:57]: The chore is Hi, Jen.

Jen [0:30:59]: I'd love to talk about myself for the next, like, a five hundred words.

Jen [0:31:03]: And here's all our features.

Jen [0:31:04]: And this is why it's better than the alternative and I would just love to get your time on a demo.

Jen [0:31:09]: How many times do you get outbound that sounds like that.

Jen [0:31:12]: Right?

Jen [0:31:12]: I feel for this group, frank?

Jen [0:31:14]: Because I feel like you're at the brunt of it.

Jen [0:31:15]: As we talked about before, you might have the best damn raincoat coat in the world.

Jen [0:31:19]: If it's hundred dollars, It's too expensive.

Jen [0:31:22]: Right?

Jen [0:31:23]: And so this is this in play.

Jen [0:31:24]: Like better raincoat, better way to stay dry does not mean I abandon my umbrella because quite frankly, my umbrella is free because I already own it.

Jen [0:31:32]: It's a tough thing to overcome.

Jen [0:31:34]: So the missing ingredient.

Jen [0:31:36]: The thing that When I read outbound emails, I am craving, is something called per perception curiosity.

Jen [0:31:43]: Per perception curiosity is defined here.

Jen [0:31:46]: It is a very specific type of curiosity, which is like, when you hear something that contradicts what you think you know or believe to be true.

Jen [0:31:54]: And they describe it as like an itch you need to scratch.

Jen [0:31:57]: Right?

Jen [0:31:57]: Because you...

Jen [0:31:58]: You're now are on this mission to seek out information.

Jen [0:32:00]: So I told the story recently, but there is a study that was done of public bathroom stalls.

Jen [0:32:04]: This is disgusting, and I'm clearly, toilet humor is my s.

Jen [0:32:08]: There is a study of public bathroom stalls that shows most of us when we go to public bathroom, we go to the middle stalls.

Jen [0:32:14]: No reason why it's subconscious.

Jen [0:32:15]: But they're actually the dirtiest stalls.

Jen [0:32:17]: It's the end installs you wanna use because so many of us go to the middle stalls.

Jen [0:32:21]: Now when I heard that, I freaking told everybody.

Jen [0:32:24]: I knew.

Jen [0:32:24]: I was like, guess, what?

Jen [0:32:26]: You feel the animal because we as humans love to feel smart.

Jen [0:32:32]: We love to feel funny.

Jen [0:32:34]: Like, we love to be perceived that way.

Jen [0:32:36]: And that I would argue is what exactly we want out of a message?

Jen [0:32:40]: We want someone to start thinking about what they think to be true, what they believe to be true and start seeking out why is this different from what I know?

Jen [0:32:49]: Because that sparks this this match.

Jen [0:32:52]: Right?

Jen [0:32:52]: If you can get someone to say, wow, that's different than what I believed, they now wanna go and tell everybody, which is, I promise you everything what your sales team wants that prospect to do.

Jen [0:33:01]: And so I'm gonna show you the four questions to get to this.

Jen [0:33:05]: And I think this is an ingredient when I see this in a cold email.

Jen [0:33:08]: It's very rare, but it looks and sounds different from every other cold mall Irene read.

Jen [0:33:12]: So question number one seems crazy obvious, but I can tell you most sales teams don't do this.

Jen [0:33:17]: Who is most likely to have the problem that our solution solves.

Jen [0:33:21]: When I was a seller?

Jen [0:33:22]: I was like, let me prioritize my territory by sexiest logos, most F, biggest revenue size.

Jen [0:33:27]: Right?

Jen [0:33:27]: And let me find a way in because if I can win that deal, man, I will be the boss.

Jen [0:33:31]: I chased deals for years that had no business Chasing because they didn't have the problem that we solve.

Jen [0:33:37]: So in this example, if I'm selling this raincoat coat.

Jen [0:33:39]: I'm not gonna focus my time on Phoenix, no shade to the Phoenix people in the room.

Jen [0:33:44]: Thank you.

Jen [0:33:45]: But I'm gonna focus on the cities that have the highest precipitation rates.

Jen [0:33:48]: Now, I'm from Chicago areas.

Jen [0:33:50]: I'm gonna pick Chicago for this example.

Jen [0:33:51]: A hundred and nineteen days of rain a year.

Jen [0:33:53]: So who in your prospect universe is most likely to have the problem that you solve.

Jen [0:33:58]: Question two, Now how do those people solve the problem today and more importantly why.

Jen [0:34:05]: So for an average human being, most of us own about two two umbrellas.

Jen [0:34:12]: It doesn't matter if you own three or twenty.

Jen [0:34:15]: That's weird, but like, more power to you, but the reason we own them is because they're so cheap.

Jen [0:34:20]: Right?

Jen [0:34:20]: It's like, an I'm umbrella cost.

Jen [0:34:21]: I don't know.

Jen [0:34:22]: Haven't bought a all a long time.

Jen [0:34:23]: It really doesn't cost that much.

Jen [0:34:24]: So, yeah, I'll pick one up, and I'll keep it my car.

Jen [0:34:26]: So we have to be able to empathize with what makes status quo attractive.

Jen [0:34:30]: This is not where we're judging.

Jen [0:34:32]: We're not saying, well, you just don't know there's a better way.

Jen [0:34:35]: I don't think that's true.

Jen [0:34:36]: We like status quo for a reason.

Jen [0:34:39]: We've gotta understand that.

Jen [0:34:40]: Because question three is now What is the unintended negative consequence as a result of how we're solving the problem today.

Jen [0:34:47]: So as it turns out, only five percent of us remember to pack an umbrella on days it's supposed to rain.

Jen [0:34:52]: I am a hundred percent part of the ninety five percent that forgets?

Jen [0:34:55]: Is anybody else?

Jen [0:34:56]: Yeah.

Jen [0:34:57]: Is anybody part of the five percent?

Jen [0:34:58]: Like, you just like got your umbrella right here.

Jen [0:35:00]: Yeah.

Jen [0:35:00]: Okay.

Jen [0:35:00]: I like it.

Jen [0:35:01]: There's always a couple of five percent.

Jen [0:35:02]: Alright.

Jen [0:35:03]: I'm Dutch.

Jen [0:35:04]: I'm Dutch.

Jen [0:35:05]: Yeah.

Jen [0:35:07]: It's fair.

Jen [0:35:08]: That is a fair reason.

Jen [0:35:09]: Now when we forget most of us not all of us We'll do what.

Jen [0:35:13]: We order a uber or lyft.

Jen [0:35:14]: Like, if you're in the lobby of your, office building, and you've got a huge client meeting, and you were planning to walk and it's like, point six miles away, most of us are gonna order an Uber to get there because I'm not gonna show up looking like a wet wrap.

Jen [0:35:28]: But here's what Uber does.

Jen [0:35:29]: Uber knows, you need us.

Jen [0:35:31]: And so they are charging you probably forty dollars for a ride that should cost you fifteen.

Jen [0:35:35]: It's a negative consequence.

Jen [0:35:37]: But in the moment, I'm like, this is the best answer.

Jen [0:35:40]: Just like your prospects in the moment are making the best possible answer for this moment in time, but often aren't looking back at the negative consequences of that.

Jen [0:35:49]: And step number four is who else took a different approach.

Jen [0:35:52]: The line that I see in Cold emails all the time that drives me nuts because we've all told we have to do it is we helped we helped this company solve the world's problems.

Jen [0:36:03]: Right?

Jen [0:36:04]: Like, we did it.

Jen [0:36:05]: It was us.

Jen [0:36:05]: You are all here, probably not to hear from me, but probably to learn from each other.

Jen [0:36:10]: Right?

Jen [0:36:10]: Why you come to events is probably why you're part of Exit Five community, because you are very interested in knowing What do you know that I don't?

Jen [0:36:16]: Yet when we gonna earn an outbound motion, our messaging style is to talk about selves and how awesome we are.

Jen [0:36:22]: When that's not often, particularly as you go more senior in the organization what people care about.

Jen [0:36:26]: So there's an in innate curiosity and what's everybody else doing that I don't know.

Jen [0:36:30]: So let's take those four things and let's put it together into an el nino called email.

Jen [0:36:36]: This is a cold email...

Jen [0:36:38]: Some you will hate it.

Jen [0:36:39]: That's just the game.

Jen [0:36:40]: Right?

Jen [0:36:40]: The idea here is instead of pitching a product, which is what ninety nine point nine and nine percent of cold emails do.

Jen [0:36:47]: And by the way, you can use this on a phone.

Jen [0:36:49]: You can use this on Linkedin.

Jen [0:36:50]: It's it's not specific cold email.

Jen [0:36:52]: But most emails pitch a product instead of prompting that kind of per perception curiosity to think differently about themselves.

Jen [0:37:00]: So here's how I wrote it.

Jen [0:37:01]: Subject line super boring.

Jen [0:37:03]: Uber bill.

Jen [0:37:04]: Not sexy, but I'm like, did I get over charge?

Jen [0:37:06]: Let me open it.

Jen [0:37:07]: Saw you commute to work in Chicago looks like Chicago gets about a hundred and nineteen rainy days a year.

Jen [0:37:12]: The average American owns two point one umbrella get only five percent of us remember to bring an umbrella on days.

Jen [0:37:16]: Supposed rain.

Jen [0:37:16]: At this moment, what I'm trying to capture is, like, are you in that five percent or are you in the ninety five percent.

Jen [0:37:21]: If you're in the five percent cool.

Jen [0:37:22]: We're never you're never buying my raincoat code anyway?

Jen [0:37:24]: I just wanna get to who you are.

Jen [0:37:26]: When this happens, how often do you end up ordering an Uber?

Jen [0:37:29]: Thanks to surge pricing, we end up spending forty bucks for a ride that cost us fifteen.

Jen [0:37:33]: Betty commute to the loop from Buck.

Jen [0:37:34]: She found a way to cut her Uber bill by two hundred dollars a month?

Jen [0:37:37]: Are you open to hearing how she did it?

Jen [0:37:38]: Now, what am I not talking about in this email?

Jen [0:37:41]: Raincoat.

Jen [0:37:43]: There's no mention of Raincoat because and silly as this is, people don't buy solutions to problems, they don't think are important.

Jen [0:37:50]: But in sales and marketing, often we pitch our solution in the hopes that will make someone suddenly have this realization it's important.

Jen [0:37:58]: My intention of a message like this is to get someone thinking about their own behavior.

Jen [0:38:02]: Before I ask them to start thinking about me.

Jen [0:38:04]: Like, I want you to do the mental math because if you're only taking one Uber a month, you probably don't have a big enough problem to solve.

Jen [0:38:11]: You probably don't need it, and that's okay.

Jen [0:38:13]: I am intentionally alien people.

Jen [0:38:15]: Problem I see a lot with sales teams is we try to appeal to everybody.

Jen [0:38:19]: And that's why we end up talking about ourselves because we're like I don't know how to talk about you, but I do know how to talk about my product.

Jen [0:38:24]: And so in the initial situation or un cold email.

Jen [0:38:29]: The buyer read that and thought, man, I click into it, the this thing cost a hundred dollars, that's too expensive.

Jen [0:38:35]: Now we flip the equation because whether you're spending two hundred dollars a month on uber or a hundred dollars a month or hundred and fifty dollars, that is always gonna be more expensive than the one time one hundred.

Jen [0:38:47]: So it's the same product, but we change the messaging, recognizing that we know an umbrella is going to cause a status quo problem.

Jen [0:38:54]: Just like in your businesses, You know that there's ways that your prospects are solving the problem today without you.

Jen [0:39:00]: They will win if we don't cr this.

Jen [0:39:03]: And so these are the four questions we went through.

Jen [0:39:06]: This is genuinely, an enjoyable exercise to do.

Jen [0:39:10]: I know sometimes spending time with sales is not enjoyable.

Jen [0:39:13]: But if you go through this together, you will have different perspectives, you will butt heads, you will bash together.

Jen [0:39:18]: But I've yet to work with an organization who has gone through these four questions and said, We're not better off on the other side.

Jen [0:39:24]: Thinking about our messaging by not having this.

Jen [0:39:26]: And so this is something again, like, we don't wanna do an isolation.

Jen [0:39:30]: You wanna get product, leadership, you wanna get sales in.

Jen [0:39:33]: The only way sales is gonna give you time for this though is if you do step one.

Jen [0:39:37]: And if you help them understand that there's is a problem we're solving here.

Jen [0:39:40]: And it's...

Jen [0:39:41]: What's in it for me, we all know that's, like, the love language of sales what's in it for me, that's you don't have to build as much new pipeline.

Jen [0:39:47]: And so what this is really about if anyone's heard of the term cost of an action is, like, in cold outbound in our messaging, we tend to lead with Roi, like, Roi by definition as a maybe.

Jen [0:39:58]: If you do something, which is the hardest part, you might be rewarded with a positive return.

Jen [0:40:06]: Might.

Jen [0:40:07]: My not, that's a high risk.

Jen [0:40:09]: If outbound and pipeline generation was as easy as me blasting emails saying r roi to everybody, sales would be the sickest job ever.

Jen [0:40:17]: But I think we've all sent those emails and saw nothing on the other side because everybody else is sending those emails to.

Jen [0:40:23]: So instead, I would argue there's absolutely a place for Roi.

Jen [0:40:25]: We need it.

Jen [0:40:26]: But job number one is the prospect has decide.

Jen [0:40:29]: They have a problem more solving and more solving now.

Jen [0:40:31]: They have to perceive that there's a cost of staying the same.

Jen [0:40:34]: Not a cost of doing nothing.

Jen [0:40:35]: Again, I can't reiterate this enough.

Jen [0:40:37]: They're doing something, but staying with that something.

Jen [0:40:40]: If they don't perceive that there's is a negative consequence to that, it doesn't matter how shiny Roi roi is, they're not gonna buy it particularly in an outbound motion.

Jen [0:40:48]: So my next and final zero dollar exercise, is a really fun one.

Jen [0:40:53]: Again, cold email per.

Jen [0:40:56]: So what you're doing is you're asking everybody in the biz...

Jen [0:41:01]: Everybody on the sales team or if you're feeling funky do the marketing team as well.

Jen [0:41:04]: And say, I want you to write a cold email to a an account that you really wanna win or expand on the expansion side.

Jen [0:41:13]: And I want...

Jen [0:41:14]: You create a shared Google sheet, very free.

Jen [0:41:16]: And you asked them to write the name of the company, the name of the prospect the prospects title, their subject line and their cold email.

Jen [0:41:23]: And then you bring everybody together, and you ask them to stand up and read that cold email in front of the room.

Jen [0:41:29]: And then you ask everybody in the audience, all the other people that are there, to clock at what point they check the fuck out.

Jen [0:41:36]: And I will tell you I've had so many clients to do this.

Jen [0:41:39]: I do this when I do work fast.

Jen [0:41:40]: It is so fun because you can see it on the seller's space.

Jen [0:41:43]: I've had sellers stuff stop and be like, you're clock...

Jen [0:41:45]: You're clocking out right now.

Jen [0:41:46]: Aren't you.

Jen [0:41:46]: Yeah.

Jen [0:41:46]: You are.

Jen [0:41:47]: Okay.

Jen [0:41:47]: But the reality is sometimes when we're writing and we're doing the job, and it's just like so mundane, we're not actually thinking about this is what the person on the receiving end is hearing in their head.

Jen [0:41:56]: And so to solve the problem, first sales has to be aware that there's a problem.

Jen [0:42:00]: The old way of writing cold emails.

Jen [0:42:03]: Again, I can't reiterate this enough.

Jen [0:42:04]: It worked in twenty twenty twenty one, like, everybody had money to spend and we didn't have as much custom optimization like all that stuff.

Jen [0:42:10]: Shiny Air is is really making this stuff and effective.

Jen [0:42:14]: And it's not that you just haven't uncovered the magic channel or the magic like, template.

Jen [0:42:18]: It's not that.

Jen [0:42:19]: If we've gotta go in recognizing that buyer status is gonna win a heck of a lot more than we do if we're not pre empty it with our message.

Jen [0:42:26]: So step one, to get sales buy in.

Jen [0:42:29]: It is a powerful story to say, we actually probably need to stop pushing so hard on new pipeline generation and fix this closed loss status quo problem.

Jen [0:42:40]: We have, get both of us looking at the problem the same way.

Jen [0:42:43]: That's the common enemy.

Jen [0:42:44]: Step two is, now let's realize, like, we're actually contributing to it.

Jen [0:42:49]: The way that we are writing these these messages whether you're getting me a cadence or a seller is out there doing it on their own, is making the problem worse.

Jen [0:42:56]: And until we do that stuff, sales is gonna think, like, this is just how we sell.

Jen [0:43:01]: This is the way we've always done it.

Jen [0:43:03]: It's really hard to make movement.

Jen [0:43:05]: So that's why I focused on these two areas first because I think half the battle is just like, How do I get sales on the right page?

Jen [0:43:10]: So tell me what slide.

Jen [0:43:11]: If you do.

Jen [0:43:12]: Leave can email me or I'm sure Dave will send him out.

Jen [0:43:15]: But I wanna say a very sincere.

Jen [0:43:17]: Thank you.

Jen [0:43:17]: I know we've got a few minutes for q and a.

Jen [0:43:19]: Thank you for welcoming me as a sales?

Dave [0:43:21]: You got You You gotta go.

Dave [0:43:23]: You got So if you if you have a question, give it up for jet.

Dave [0:43:26]: Yeah.

Dave [0:43:26]: Okay.

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