#352: Build a Better B2B Growth Engine with Uzair Dada from Iron Horse

#352 | Dave sits down with Uzair Dada, CEO of Iron Horse, to talk about why most B2B companies are overcomplicating their marketing and what to do instead. Uzair breaks down his three-part growth framework — get discovered, get chosen, close — and explains why most companies are wasting the majority of their ad budget targeting the wrong audience entirely. He also gets into how to actually show up in AI search, why brand vs. demand is a false choice marketers invented to argue about, and how he blocks every Friday afternoon to build with AI. Then they get into what AI adoption really looks like inside enterprise companies, and why taste and judgment are becoming the only true differentiators left.

Check out Webflow's free AEO assessment here.

Timestamps

• (00:00 ) - - Intro
  
• (03:17 ) - - Running the same agency for 26 years and why AI makes it exciting again
  
• (06:19 ) - - Why Uzair blocks Friday afternoons from 2-7 to build with AI
  
• (11:13 ) - - How a personal prep tool became a company-wide account dossier app
  
• (15:34 ) - - The leadership meeting habit that drove AI adoption across the org
  
• (17:35 ) - - Are marketers going away? The case for taste and judgment
  
• (25:02 ) - - Why brand vs. demand is a false choice
  
• (26:29 ) - - Get discovered, get chosen, close: a simpler B2B growth framework
  
• (28:03 ) - - The company targeting a million people when their real audience was 20,000
  
• (34:52 ) - - The real bottleneck to AI in enterprise isn't the tech, it's governance
  
• (41:46 ) - - AEO: start with your Gong call transcripts, not a new tool
  
• (44:28 ) - - Why the second query matters more than the first in AI search

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Dave Gerhardt [0:00:01]: You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt show.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:17]: Hey.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:17]: It's me, Dave.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:18]: That's me.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:18]: I'm Dave.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:19]: Before we get into today's episode, I wanna give a quick shout out to our friends at Webflow who are sponsoring this episode Webflow is the agent web marketing platform for high performing brands Their platform lets you build fully custom websites that rank an Ai search and make your website your biggest growth engine without being dependent on a developer.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:37]: I know that because we use flow and exit five, no developers here.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:41]: This episode is part of a three part Ae series that we're doing with Webflow over the next few weeks.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:46]: I've been having a bunch of conversations with practitioners who are deep in the weeds on Ai seo and web optimization.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:53]: We talk about what working, what's changing With real examples you can go and apply to your job right now in marketing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:00:59]: Webflow also put together this free Ae assessment, you can check it out after this episode we'll link to it in the notes here.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:05]: Ai is changing how buyers discover and evaluate your brand and this resource will tell you exactly where you stand.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:11]: You'll get a personalized score showing how your site performs an Ai search today, visibility into how likely your brand is to be cited by answer engines and a breakdown across your content, technical foundations authority and how to measure where you show up, so you know where to focus.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:25]: We'll put the link in the notes here.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:27]: Thanks again for Webflow to create this series with us all about Ae, one of the hottest topics we've had in marketing a big appetite for it, and I know this gonna be a great interview.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:35]: So let's get into this episode.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:37]: So it's one company was spending big on Linkedin, meta ads and Google ads targeting over a million people, but when they actually ran the numbers, they're real audience that they should have been going after was only twenty thousand people.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:49]: It's ninety eight percent waste money that could have been reinvest elsewhere.

Dave Gerhardt [0:01:54]: Uzair Dada is the CEO of Iron Horse A growth marketing agency he's been running for twenty six years a speaker clear he wasn't the guy wasting the money.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:03]: He found it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:04]: He's focused on enterprise B, and he's in the room with Cmos at companies doing a hundred million plus in revenue And what he's seeing right now is actually a massive gap between what's possible with Ai and what companies can actually implement in the enterprise, most of the It and security teams are saying, like, no.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:21]: No.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:21]: You can't do this yet.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:22]: So we got into his growth framework, which boils the entire B2B engine down to three steps get discovered, get chosen and then close, and we talked about why most companies are advertising the wrong audiences because they never did the foundational work upfront.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:37]: We talked about how to actually show up in L results and why the second query often matters more than the first.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:44]: We talked about why he blocks every Friday afternoon from two to seven to build with Ai and how that habit has spread across his entire company.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:52]: And his take on why brand versus demand is a false choice that marketers invented just to argue about.

Dave Gerhardt [0:02:59]: I love that one.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:00]: The back half of the pod we get into Ae, what's actually working for enterprise marketers right now and a reality check on Ai adoption that most of Linkedin doesn't wanna hear.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:11]: So let's get into it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:12]: This is my conversation with U air from Iron Horse.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:15]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:16]: U there.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:17]: Good to meet you, sir.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:18]: We just were in the back...

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:19]: In the green room just rem about the good old days and a lot has changed.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:24]: You're talking about Drift and I I have a duff bag that I got for, like, my two year anniversary there that I still take everywhere and every now and then somebody be like, oh, that drift logo is amazing.

Uzair Dada [0:03:35]: It it is amazing.

Uzair Dada [0:03:36]: I was is funny.

Uzair Dada [0:03:37]: I was rem about the black on black t shirt.

Uzair Dada [0:03:39]: I still wear it.

Uzair Dada [0:03:39]: You know, It's...

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:40]: That's a good one.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:41]: That's a good one.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:41]: And you know what what's funny.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:42]: It's like, so many the lessons from that era.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:44]: I actually think And if it looks like I'm distracted I typed notes during this pod, so don't give me.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:49]: I would doing a hosting a webinar one time in the lady who was like, look at the host.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:52]: He's not even looking at the screen?

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:53]: I'm like, do you know what it's like to have all...

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:55]: You know, you gotta we gotta run a tight ship.

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:57]: So Oh, was there...

Dave Gerhardt [0:03:58]: You're the CEO of Iron Horse, B2B demand gen agency.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:02]: Is it treatment work on this company for twenty plus years.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:05]: Am I reading that right?

Uzair Dada [0:04:07]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:04:07]: I started Iron horse twenty six years ago in January.

Uzair Dada [0:04:10]: So yes.

Uzair Dada [0:04:10]: It's been a minute.

Uzair Dada [0:04:11]: It's been a minute.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:12]: Dang.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:12]: What keeps you doing that for so long.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:15]: I feel like, in especially in the world of marketing, it's like, I'm a do something for two years.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:19]: I'm a do some next.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:20]: I'm gonna do something over for two years, what's led to the longevity, especially in the world of B dimension.

Uzair Dada [0:04:24]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:04:24]: I think to be the love for sales and marketing as a core consistent theme that's existed and then sort of...

Uzair Dada [0:04:30]: I think we've gone through, like, four, five transformations in that twenty five year period.

Uzair Dada [0:04:35]: And the ability and I started it.

Uzair Dada [0:04:38]: So ownership has some privileges, you know, you can pivot and change and do what you wanna do and do what people you like doing it.

Uzair Dada [0:04:44]: So I think that's the thing that keeps you going.

Uzair Dada [0:04:46]: And Definitely fine.

Uzair Dada [0:04:47]: I think, we're living in a super inch interesting time that kinda dwarf everything we've seen over the last twenty years.

Uzair Dada [0:04:51]: So it's kind of fun.

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:53]: Is it a big agency?

Dave Gerhardt [0:04:53]: I actually have no idea.

Uzair Dada [0:04:55]: No.

Uzair Dada [0:04:55]: We're small.

Uzair Dada [0:04:55]: We're about thirty five people, all based in North America and super super focused on the growth side.

Uzair Dada [0:05:01]: That's kinda all we're focused on.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:03]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:03]: I got a bunch of questions.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:04]: And Ask you about the growth side, but just...

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:06]: I'm already going off script because I'm sure you've seen this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:09]: The narrative now is like, best time ever to start an agency because the headaches of having agency are gone.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:16]: Is that Bs, do buy into that?

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:18]: Our agency's hot now because you can do a bunch of work with Ai What's your point of view as someone has actually been doing this for a while.

Uzair Dada [0:05:24]: To me, what is changing is kind of reducing latency that came from all the functional ups.

Uzair Dada [0:05:29]: So I seriously feel like every time I try to do stuff before I had to go to different people to get answers.

Uzair Dada [0:05:35]: Not that those people are not relevant in that conversation anymore.

Uzair Dada [0:05:40]: But the ability for me to just get shit done on my own without what for the latency and waiting for the design team to finish something or...

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:49]: Totally.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:49]: Dude I see?

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:50]: I I feel you the most on this one.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:51]: This is what I'm saying is, like, my career, I came up and I, like, got promoted to be the Vp of marketing because I was the good at marketing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:58]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:05:59]: And actually, a lot of the things that...

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:01]: Then I'm like, wait.

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:02]: My whole job now is, like, team management, performance management, Hr.

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:06]: I'm like, don't you wanted me to be the guy who's, like, writing the eleven page copy.

Uzair Dada [0:06:10]: That's it...

Uzair Dada [0:06:10]: Exactly.

Uzair Dada [0:06:10]: So to me I I feel like un shack.

Uzair Dada [0:06:13]: That's the term that's a term.

Uzair Dada [0:06:16]: But I truly

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:17]: like it.

Uzair Dada [0:06:17]: I can just go do now and I started blocking, like, my Friday afternoons, my bill day.

Uzair Dada [0:06:22]: So like six hours for, like, two till seven that I'll just crank and build stuff, which I could not even fathom them doing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:31]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:31]: What have you done on Friday?

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:33]: My problem by the way is I block a Friday, and then I just use it to do all the things I didn't get to do.

Uzair Dada [0:06:38]: I started getting pretty religious about it with the last four weeks.

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:42]: Alright.

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:42]: So tell me, what are you doing?

Dave Gerhardt [0:06:43]: What's the plan for a Friday?

Uzair Dada [0:06:45]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:06:45]: So kind of the last few things and we're sort of jumping heads.

Uzair Dada [0:06:49]: I'll go into it.

Uzair Dada [0:06:50]: The kinda of the big thing that I was trying to think about is, I spent a lot of time meeting a lot of companies.

Uzair Dada [0:06:53]: I kinda sort of context which eight times a day and then talking to different customers, prospects, partners whatever else.

Uzair Dada [0:06:59]: And before, you were running from meeting to meeting the meeting.

Uzair Dada [0:07:03]: You barely researched.

Uzair Dada [0:07:04]: You're barely rehearsed kinda what you wanna do, what you wanna get accomplished.

Uzair Dada [0:07:08]: And you sort of went in there and sort of kinda had your domain with you winged it.

Uzair Dada [0:07:12]: The ability for you now to get prepped, research, not search, because we all were doing search, not researching.

Uzair Dada [0:07:20]: Analyze and have the ability to digest that is so much simpler and easier because you can connect things.

Uzair Dada [0:07:28]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:07:29]: In harness information.

Uzair Dada [0:07:30]: So one of the things I did, and I'm happy to show it to you if you wanna see it.

Uzair Dada [0:07:34]: Is build out sort of this kind of notion of an account dossier.

Uzair Dada [0:07:37]: So what it does is it sort of takes into account a lot of different things have, it pulls that stuff from Hubspot.

Uzair Dada [0:07:44]: Pulls that stuff from Clay and Zoom info, pulls out stuff from my granola nodes, pull lot stuff from my Gmail and g drive stuff.

Uzair Dada [0:07:51]: And based on sort of what we do gives me kind of a summary of the...

Uzair Dada [0:07:56]: What I should be thinking about going into the conversation, based on the org or the person I'm talking to.

Dave Gerhardt [0:08:01]: Mh.

Uzair Dada [0:08:02]: My ability to be impactful.

Uzair Dada [0:08:04]: My ability to be contextual.

Uzair Dada [0:08:06]: My ability to be curated at that conversation, literally has gone up by, like, ten.

Dave Gerhardt [0:08:13]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:08:13]: How did you build that?

Dave Gerhardt [0:08:14]: How did you stitch all those systems together?

Uzair Dada [0:08:17]: It?

Uzair Dada [0:08:17]: Sure.

Uzair Dada [0:08:17]: Alright.

Uzair Dada [0:08:18]: So I'm gonna share my screen.

Uzair Dada [0:08:19]: We're gonna go deep into some lab crazy stuff.

Uzair Dada [0:08:22]: So let me pull up.

Uzair Dada [0:08:23]: Still show you what it is first.

Uzair Dada [0:08:25]: And I'll tell you kinda how I got that.

Uzair Dada [0:08:28]: Can you see??

Dave Gerhardt [0:08:29]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:08:29]: U.

Uzair Dada [0:08:29]: So this is just kind of tiara of the companies you were talking to.

Uzair Dada [0:08:33]: So this is the output.

Uzair Dada [0:08:34]: So this is Rev one.

Uzair Dada [0:08:35]: I'm now on Ra four in better build mode, but this is sort of what we are using across the board.

Uzair Dada [0:08:40]: So It kinda looks at who the company is kinda pulls out all the information from public data or or whatever is available, kinda gets into strategy context of what their core strategy is because we...

Uzair Dada [0:08:52]: As marketers love to go into marketing strategy with without understanding what the company does.

Uzair Dada [0:08:55]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:08:56]: So let's focus on what the company does.

Uzair Dada [0:08:58]: Then kinda looks at from a messaging and go to market perspective, what are they doing.

Uzair Dada [0:09:03]: It's got a bunch of things that we look at in here.

Uzair Dada [0:09:06]: It looks at sort of the website and both technically and from sort of a kind of Ux cx perspective.

Uzair Dada [0:09:13]: It looks at the tech stack, looks at sort of your A seo Cro type technology structure, what you're doing.

Uzair Dada [0:09:21]: It's got a bunch of thinking behind it.

Uzair Dada [0:09:23]: It looks at kinda what their people are doing from a paid perspective, looks at what people are doing on the tech x side as it connected as it not it modern, Is it not?

Uzair Dada [0:09:30]: It looks at sort of the marketing team and how the marketing team is structured who's there.

Uzair Dada [0:09:34]: And then it kinda goes into areas that may be interesting for us to talk about.

Uzair Dada [0:09:39]: From there, it says, what may be inch interesting for us to offer them Mh.

Uzair Dada [0:09:44]: As a company or talk to them about.

Uzair Dada [0:09:46]: So it's this this a really cool structure and then it ends with things that we might wanna dive into more.

Uzair Dada [0:09:52]: And all this is coming from a host of different sources.

Uzair Dada [0:09:56]: Makes sense?

Dave Gerhardt [0:09:58]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:09:58]: Tell me some of the sources, like, how are you mapping org charts and getting website traffic and paid data?

Uzair Dada [0:10:04]: Totally.

Uzair Dada [0:10:04]: So this is sort of the stack that it's sort of built on, so you can see at the bottom, like all the data sources it's pulling from.

Uzair Dada [0:10:11]: So the word stuff and everything else is coming from Zoom info from clay.

Uzair Dada [0:10:16]: It's pulling in a lot of different data sources that we have a lot of our first party data all sits here.

Uzair Dada [0:10:22]: And that it's using just a boat ton of, sort of the surface areas using Claude, and then kinda hooking everything up through claude to go build this.

Uzair Dada [0:10:31]: And then the orchestration layer is all this, kind of the manifestation of it, but sort of...

Uzair Dada [0:10:38]: It has a lot of things that have gone in and that it has a lot of governance architecture built in in terms of how we wanna see so our brand guidelines, our methodologies and some sort of some shape.

Uzair Dada [0:10:49]: So this is Rev one.

Uzair Dada [0:10:51]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:10:52]: And from Rev one, where we went being good smart marketers and having a lot of time Friday afternoons is

Dave Gerhardt [0:10:59]: two to seven.

Uzair Dada [0:11:00]: I literally build out a road map of what I wanna do?

Uzair Dada [0:11:03]: Because I saw it I and like, this is so effing and cool.

Uzair Dada [0:11:05]: I wanna do more.

Uzair Dada [0:11:06]: So I built out this crazy road map that I'm working on now as the project of all the different things that I think we could evolve.

Uzair Dada [0:11:13]: Across all of these areas.

Uzair Dada [0:11:15]: So this is sort of our iron horse marketing brain.

Dave Gerhardt [0:11:19]: And

Uzair Dada [0:11:19]: I said we're sort of building out.

Uzair Dada [0:11:20]: From there, I kinda went down to...

Uzair Dada [0:11:23]: Well, let's not build until we've thought through it So actually started building a product requirements talk.

Uzair Dada [0:11:29]: And so I've got a full blown P that I'm sort of working on sort of tweaking because you can build very easily but that it's a shitty album output.

Uzair Dada [0:11:36]: And so Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:11:37]: Kind up started building out the P, P led to sort of what's my tech architecture.

Uzair Dada [0:11:42]: Well, the architecture I was like, okay, this is really cool.

Uzair Dada [0:11:45]: But why I just building it for me?

Uzair Dada [0:11:46]: I should really build it for us our company.

Uzair Dada [0:11:48]: So from there, I said, hey, what it be looked like if I build this as a app that everyone in the company could use?

Uzair Dada [0:11:54]: So that I prototype to Ux?

Uzair Dada [0:11:56]: And from a prototype of a Ux, I now have a local working prototype on my website on my desktop that right now looks at all upcoming meetings, the day before, and make sure of the company is new or not for me or anyone on our Bd and account management team.

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:16]: And it's sean.

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:17]: Are you on all sales calls?

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:18]: Is that why?

Uzair Dada [0:12:19]: I'm not in all sales cost.

Uzair Dada [0:12:20]: But I'm saying me and anyone else?

Uzair Dada [0:12:22]: I basically built it, but now I'm sharing it across the org.

Uzair Dada [0:12:25]: Yep.

Uzair Dada [0:12:25]: So since I built in a still locally running on my core instance.

Uzair Dada [0:12:30]: We haven't deployed it across everybody.

Uzair Dada [0:12:32]: That's the next step.

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:33]: You got it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:33]: You wanna make this a web app that anybody at Iron horse can go.

Uzair Dada [0:12:36]: Exactly Since it's got Sso integration with our Google enterprise account, all that good stuff.

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:41]: So did this all originate with...

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:42]: I'm sure there's multiple tools here, but was this originated?

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:45]: And you said Claude?

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:46]: Is it Claude Did help did.

Uzair Dada [0:12:47]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:12:47]: So it's claude c was where it started?

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:50]: C.

Dave Gerhardt [0:12:50]: Okay.

Uzair Dada [0:12:51]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:12:51]: So we started in cloud c as a sort of a...

Uzair Dada [0:12:53]: Just a brainstorming idea on a fun Friday afternoon, that became really cool, and then sort of just in since then has just taken a lot So...

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:03]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:03]: This is cool because I think there's a lot of Ai use cases that, like, play really well on social media, but are kinda like dumb and don't end up getting used.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:10]: But if you think of something like this, it is...

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:13]: Man, like, I remember even just as recently as a couple years ago being like, oh, my god.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:19]: Having access to gong calls was like, a game changer.

Uzair Dada [0:13:23]: Huge.

Uzair Dada [0:13:23]: Huge...

Uzair Dada [0:13:24]: Right.

Uzair Dada [0:13:25]: I still think that's one of the coolest things that is underutilized.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:29]: Well, look, I was...

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:29]: You know, before I got on with you, I...

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:31]: We were just in a team meeting.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:32]: And what's really interesting is I feel like because I know that everything is being recorded for a purpose that we can use now, I'll be like my...

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:41]: Dave felt.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:41]: But then Like, hey, hold.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:42]: I actually I wanna, like, speak this into the record, and I'm, like, here's how I would position this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:46]: We should go do this thing because I know that after that call, like, Allison gonna take that transcript from we use Fathom and she's gonna take it and create an action with it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:54]: So it's like It is this entirely different way of working of, like, putting it onto the call like this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:13:59]: But this idea, it's like every company every role now can have this kinda, like customer brain or a company operating system of sorts or, like, let's collect all the stuff, you know, website data, product data, customer data calls, transcripts, You know, you're an agency.

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:14]: So you wanna have your methodology applied there.

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:16]: It's like, man.

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:17]: This is...

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:17]: That's cool beyond like, look at a silly picture of Dave from men.

Uzair Dada [0:14:22]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:14:22]: And our whole notion was...

Uzair Dada [0:14:24]: So the first thing was, like, it was just a prep thing for me.

Uzair Dada [0:14:28]: Yep.

Uzair Dada [0:14:28]: Then it became a prep thing for everybody.

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:31]: Sure.

Uzair Dada [0:14:31]: Now it became automated to does it for people.

Uzair Dada [0:14:33]: And now the next iteration of this is there was a huge disconnect between Bd and sales teams having customer conversations and then handing off the account teams to deliver and there was a big disconnect.

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:44]: Well, it's like, you know, software product development one zero one, almost always, the good tools come from when you solve your own problem first versus being like, what a cool app can I make versus, like, I?

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:56]: Even in my conversations in with our team.

Dave Gerhardt [0:14:58]: I'm like, I'm trying to put my blind on to, like, what other people are doing with Ai because it's...

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:02]: Part of me is like, I wanna know that stuff and so it gives me inspiration, but the other part is, like, Let's just kinda have this first principles thinking of, like, how do we default?

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:11]: Like, what problems do I have in my business?

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:12]: When my business is unique to your business to others, but what can I solve in my business with Ai?

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:17]: And then what you're doing is, like, okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:19]: I'm literally I'm on a call right now with the CEO who's been running a growth marketing agency super successful for twenty five years, and you're...

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:26]: Here's how to drive Ai adoption within Nor.

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:28]: You're the one leading the charge.

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:30]: You're not sitting back like not doing this stuff.

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:32]: I think that's really important.

Uzair Dada [0:15:34]: That's a huge lesson So, you know, one of the things that can from there, we were patient zero client one for sure.

Dave Gerhardt [0:15:39]: Sure.

Uzair Dada [0:15:40]: And one of the things we did for adoption.

Uzair Dada [0:15:41]: Remember, if we've been sort of added for, like, two and a half years, and there were a few people that were inc, and this is dog food.

Uzair Dada [0:15:48]: And then we try to say how do we system this across the oregon drive adoption.

Uzair Dada [0:15:52]: And it was starts and kinda stops.

Uzair Dada [0:15:56]: And one of the things that led to the unlock was about four or five months ago, we institutional for our leadership meeting, every leadership meeting starts every two weeks with every leader showing what they've built in the last two weeks.

Uzair Dada [0:16:09]: So we don't start with where the company is where the business is.

Uzair Dada [0:16:12]: We're saying, what did you built?

Uzair Dada [0:16:13]: And we spend, like, forty five minutes to an hour looking at what people are building and thinking.

Uzair Dada [0:16:18]: So there was a little bit of competitiveness this came in.

Uzair Dada [0:16:20]: A little bit of pressure, peer pressure came in, but that was amazing because that get everyone starting r off each other.

Uzair Dada [0:16:26]: Now the next layer is those leaders now are doing the same thing in their management meetings for their own teams.

Uzair Dada [0:16:34]: And that's been awesome because it was not just bottoms up what we tried doing, When we sort decide we have to drink the Ko.

Uzair Dada [0:16:42]: We have to believe And if we don't, it's not gonna step.

Uzair Dada [0:16:45]: And that's been a big unlock for us and really, I think a really cool way to sort of institutional that across works.

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:53]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:53]: So I have a bunch of...

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:54]: I wanna talk about Ae with you.

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:55]: I wanna talk about your growth marketing system.

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:57]: I think that's really relevant.

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:58]: But Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:16:59]: Just using this as a jumping off point.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:01]: So that's a useful example you showed, most of my audiences, you know, B2B marketers Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:07]: In house.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:08]: Some of them are also working an agency.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:10]: They're listening to this because they wanna get smarter about marketing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:12]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:13]: Based on that example, how would you talk to them?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:17]: Maybe it's the same story that you talk to your company, but would you tell them as someone who's seen the shifts in B2B over the last twenty five years?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:24]: What do I need to be paying attention to?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:26]: What matters?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:27]: How do I separate the noise from the the reality right now?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:30]: Like, what should I be thinking about when it comes to what's changing in marketing and in Ai?

Uzair Dada [0:17:35]: Well, think the biggest thing to meet always starts with literally understanding who your customer is and what are they asking?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:43]: Actually, wait.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:43]: Are you a techno optimus?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:45]: Do you believe gonna go away.

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:47]: Is everything gonna be replaced by Ai?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:49]: Is Saas gonna go away?

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:50]: Like I'd love to get the...

Dave Gerhardt [0:17:51]: Let's frame this first with, like, what's your opinion there?

Uzair Dada [0:17:55]: I think the new technology is giving marketing and marketer superpower.

Uzair Dada [0:17:59]: So I don't believe marketers go away.

Uzair Dada [0:18:02]: I think marketers evolved.

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:04]: But you see these new apps and stuff that come out.

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:05]: And I saw one on acts, like, two weeks goes, like, replace your Cmo with clot...

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:10]: You know, replace your Cmo with this thing or, like, replace your Cmo with claude code.

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:14]: Is that a bunch of bullshit do you think?

Uzair Dada [0:18:16]: I love the one which was replaced Mckinsey with these fifty claude prompts.

Uzair Dada [0:18:19]: It was awesome.

Uzair Dada [0:18:19]: I was the latest one.

Uzair Dada [0:18:21]: I saw the other day.

Uzair Dada [0:18:23]: So, you know, The clickbait is at next level though?

Uzair Dada [0:18:27]: It's like Rick awesome?

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:29]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:29]: So how do you calmly, like, sort through that?

Dave Gerhardt [0:18:31]: How do we help?

Uzair Dada [0:18:33]: A lot of cool stuff that's happening, but to the things that are changing are no longer is dollar currency, the differentiator between good companies and back.

Uzair Dada [0:18:43]: I mean, this tooling is becoming democrat us?

Uzair Dada [0:18:45]: So everyone's got access to pretty much the same tooling.

Uzair Dada [0:18:48]: Now, naturally, if you have more credits and more things, other things are possible.

Uzair Dada [0:18:51]: Everyone's got similar surface area to use, which is pretty awesome, but the difference between good to average is taste and judgment.

Uzair Dada [0:19:00]: And people who have really interesting Poe inside the companies or at other agencies or whatever.

Uzair Dada [0:19:08]: That's say, here's what's unique to us.

Uzair Dada [0:19:10]: Here's what I can do that is different than others and taking those new surface areas and applying them are doing Yeah incredibly cool stuff.

Uzair Dada [0:19:19]: And I think that's the difference to me that's the big unlocked.

Uzair Dada [0:19:23]: So it's the ability to not get scared but jumping in.

Uzair Dada [0:19:27]: One of the things I told my team is if you think you're doing good you're not failing enough.

Uzair Dada [0:19:31]: I literally, because good is changing every day every week.

Uzair Dada [0:19:37]: And so you sort of have to be in it and be immersive, it is scary initially.

Uzair Dada [0:19:42]: But once you get over that and, my whole notion is Oh my god.

Uzair Dada [0:19:45]: I couldn't do this yesterday.

Uzair Dada [0:19:47]: And that to me is such a rush of being able to be doing something that was not...

Uzair Dada [0:19:54]: It's not that it's just faster.

Uzair Dada [0:19:55]: It's something I could not do.

Dave Gerhardt [0:19:58]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:19:58]: But if that is the case, why would you...

Dave Gerhardt [0:20:00]: If I'm a founder, like, why would I hire a Cmo?

Dave Gerhardt [0:20:03]: Why would I hire a marketing team, what unique value can they play?

Dave Gerhardt [0:20:07]: Isn't it just gonna be my Ai agent or my company is just gonna own talking to the rest the world about what we do to that Ai agent and all the buying decisions are gonna just be made through that agent and none of my job's is not gonna matter?

Uzair Dada [0:20:20]: No.

Uzair Dada [0:20:20]: But I think the question is how are you showing up?

Uzair Dada [0:20:23]: Where are you showing up what are you doing to go show up?

Uzair Dada [0:20:26]: Even if it's showing up for agents?

Uzair Dada [0:20:27]: It's not that each just automatically just disappear.

Uzair Dada [0:20:30]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:20:31]: It's how you communicate, do you have a unified voice of how you show up how you talk about yourself.

Uzair Dada [0:20:38]: There's a lot of technical technicalities that goes, and I think we're sort of marketing is becoming akin to somewhat engineering.

Uzair Dada [0:20:44]: We're becoming builders, on marketing engineers.

Uzair Dada [0:20:47]: I wanna call it go to market engineers.

Uzair Dada [0:20:49]: Because is more about it.

Uzair Dada [0:20:50]: But it's much more structured, much more systematic, much more first principle systems thinking around making it happen.

Uzair Dada [0:20:57]: So I don't think it's a I just was doing something that was a single function that carries over, we're sort of becoming much more cross functional.

Uzair Dada [0:21:04]: And the taste and judgment, Like, a cool example is there's a company out Australia a studio called I candy, Ai candy.

Uzair Dada [0:21:13]: And there are Ai video studio.

Uzair Dada [0:21:15]: And I saw that stuff, and I was talking to one of my friends as a creative director.

Uzair Dada [0:21:18]: And I said this is incredible.

Uzair Dada [0:21:20]: We're doomed because if Ai can do that, we don't need creative directors anymore.

Uzair Dada [0:21:23]: And she goes, you know who's enabling that it is the best creative directors in the world.

Uzair Dada [0:21:27]: That are actually telling the Ai what to do So that tooling is tooling, But the taste and judgment is what makes awesome happen.

Dave Gerhardt [0:21:36]: It's interesting point.

Dave Gerhardt [0:21:37]: And, by the way, I'm just provoking because I...

Uzair Dada [0:21:40]: Totally.

Uzair Dada [0:21:40]: Totally.

Dave Gerhardt [0:21:41]: I believe this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:21:42]: I want to have marketers to continue to have jobs.

Dave Gerhardt [0:21:44]: I wanna help make the case, and I actually think that when I put my phone down and I'm not on x or Linkedin, and I have a minute, I think a lot of this stuff is actually three to five to ten years.

Dave Gerhardt [0:21:56]: I also knew data today that, like, the majority of the country Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:00]: America is actually revolt against Ai.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:03]: And so there is gonna be some, like, maybe not a majority It was like, you know, forty six percent, but I'm a marketer at roundup.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:08]: And then if you think about, like, okay, our our audience is B2B, B2B buying is pretty complex even if your Ai agent is gonna do a bunch of the initial research.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:18]: I do feel like you're not gonna...

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:21]: Oh, that wasn't me.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:22]: I didn't make that decision.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:23]: My Ai agent brought in, you know, Ibm.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:26]: So it's, like, don't fire me if this doesn't work.

Uzair Dada [0:22:29]: That's that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:30]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:30]: No.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:31]: But to your point.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:31]: So, I was gonna say, like, our Rip ip to so because chat Shut this down.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:35]: But I was not good at making those funny.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:38]: There was that stretch of time wherever everyone's gonna make those funny little, like, Ai so generated videos.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:42]: The people that were really good at that were, like, people who just have ridiculous ideas and, like, I am not...

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:47]: I cannot think of a cat on the moon with Elon Musk, You know, like I don't think of those types of things.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:53]: So maybe that is the point about having taste is like, coming up with ways.

Dave Gerhardt [0:22:57]: You're gonna be sitting in your, like, super lab being able to prompt anything, but that is the skill.

Uzair Dada [0:23:03]: I think that is a skill and as a result, the noise level is just going to five hundred.

Uzair Dada [0:23:08]: And so that taste and judgment becomes even more important.

Uzair Dada [0:23:12]: So who are gonna be those curator.

Dave Gerhardt [0:23:15]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:23:15]: Who are gonna be those experienced people that can sort of lose this and harness cool that comes out for it.

Uzair Dada [0:23:21]: So I feel like our role is gonna evolve even more.

Uzair Dada [0:23:25]: And I think if you think about the way Gt is happening.

Uzair Dada [0:23:30]: And as you said, agents are gonna talk to your buying agents are gonna talk to your selling in Yada yada.

Uzair Dada [0:23:35]: Like, the journey from getting discovered, to getting chosen is changing.

Uzair Dada [0:23:41]: And to me, sort of things we have to do is kind of go back to the simplicity.

Uzair Dada [0:23:47]: I think, me as marketers have over count complicated the shit out of marketing over the years.

Uzair Dada [0:23:54]: Oh, and

Dave Gerhardt [0:23:55]: I agree we we

Uzair Dada [0:23:57]: just argue about stupid shit that's just

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:00]: that got, I've I've never talked to you before, but like, yeah, a story that I tell all the time is, like, I live in a small town in Vermont, it's a pretty rural area, but there's just one sandwich shop down the street.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:11]: And man she crush it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:12]: And she does good marketing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:14]: They have good Instagram content, and I'm like, you know she measures the success of their business.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:18]: Like, did more people come in the store Not.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:21]: Exactly Yes.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:24]: And, like, how's?

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:26]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:27]: Who knows why?

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:28]: I don't know if it's, like because of all the, you know, Mart tech vendors and attribution and the fact you can make the case B2B buying is more complex and so it is But I don't think she cares which touch it was, and it I I do think that, yes, like god.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:41]: I love the simplification.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:42]: And that it's like that bell curve of, like, when you start out in your career, you try to measure everything and justify everything in Sound way smarter than you and you realize, like, actually no.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:50]: It's kinda like, my friend P, who's the founder of this company called Para.

Dave Gerhardt [0:24:53]: He's like, don't treat customers like, let's not stop treating people like they're morons, Like, if you do good marketing, people are gonna find it and show up and they're gonna tell you that they heard about you.

Uzair Dada [0:25:02]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:25:02]: To me, I I use this lot.

Uzair Dada [0:25:03]: I said brand and demand as a fig of marketers imagination.

Uzair Dada [0:25:06]: Right.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:09]: Is that because so that's the punchline but wise because they're not different.

Uzair Dada [0:25:12]: Well now they are different, but we sort of over index on this or that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:16]: Right.

Uzair Dada [0:25:17]: Not this or that.

Uzair Dada [0:25:17]: It's a structured approach.

Uzair Dada [0:25:19]: You know, another good one that I just saw Scott Brink came out with this sort of compost post stack thing the other day.

Uzair Dada [0:25:24]: And John Miller posted around attribution.

Uzair Dada [0:25:26]: And he goes, don't use attribution to improve marketing, use attribution to improve marketing.

Uzair Dada [0:25:31]: And I thought that was so great.

Uzair Dada [0:25:33]: Right.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:34]: So like perfectly...

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:34]: He's good at that little Nuance in the words right now.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:37]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:37]: I did a podcast, the last one that came out before this one will come later.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:41]: It was with this guy at at Ram Drew on the data science team over there.

Dave Gerhardt [0:25:45]: And he said, basically, like, measurement is the number one thing that kills good marketing before he even has a chance.

Uzair Dada [0:25:50]: Hundred percent.

Uzair Dada [0:25:51]: And so we sort of...

Uzair Dada [0:25:52]: We've been talking about alignment for God knows how long between sales and marketing.

Uzair Dada [0:25:56]: We've been talking about attribution and kinda how things happen.

Uzair Dada [0:26:01]: We've talking about kind of Kpis that have been pulled up from the marketing teams and sales teams into the board levels and they ask for stupid Sql and Sql and other things.

Uzair Dada [0:26:12]: It's just especially as you go to enterprise and market, Dave, it's just so broken.

Uzair Dada [0:26:16]: It's just...

Uzair Dada [0:26:17]: Those are fundamentals that have to be revisited it.

Uzair Dada [0:26:20]: And to me, I think where people need to start to sort of need to truly start with good data sets and alignment on what matters?

Uzair Dada [0:26:28]: Is that...

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:29]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:29]: Maybe...

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:29]: So you have...

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:30]: I was gonna transition to ask you about this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:31]: So you have this kinda growth operating system.

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:34]: Your focus is specifically around enterprise.

Dave Gerhardt [0:26:37]: Do you wanna just kinda talk me through your view of the world, I think this would relate to everyone listening us the group

Uzair Dada [0:26:43]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:26:43]: Totally.

Uzair Dada [0:26:43]: So, you know the way, I gotta started to talking about it just to me, I'm saying, if in our conversations, when I'm having with Cmo says and practitioners is, simplify what you do and kinda anchor everything at underneath.

Uzair Dada [0:26:55]: So start with get discovered, which is seventy five percent to eighty percent of your journey, which truly right now pretty much off domain.

Uzair Dada [0:27:01]: So it's your Ao c Seo stuff.

Uzair Dada [0:27:04]: It's your demand gen stuff.

Uzair Dada [0:27:05]: It's your P community strategy stuff all combine.

Uzair Dada [0:27:09]: Historically, all we did with when we wanted to do more stuff was spend more on paid media.

Uzair Dada [0:27:15]: It doesn't work anymore.

Uzair Dada [0:27:16]: The second part, which is sort of your new middle funnel is your website.

Uzair Dada [0:27:20]: That's where the selection happens.

Uzair Dada [0:27:21]: And so if seventy to eighty percent is off domain, and the next ten to fifteen percent is your sort of website, the website needs to have a bridge from outside to insight.

Uzair Dada [0:27:31]: That means we need to make discover ability super easy.

Uzair Dada [0:27:33]: That means that we need to make conversion optimization kind of point built into how we structure those journeys.

Uzair Dada [0:27:40]: It all starts with understanding your audience.

Uzair Dada [0:27:45]: It all starts with refining your audience.

Uzair Dada [0:27:47]: And today, most companies are very lazy about doing that.

Uzair Dada [0:27:52]: And as a result, everything waterfalls falls and it's diluted.

Uzair Dada [0:27:55]: So we have a company we were working with that was sort of spending a lot of money on Linkedin, Meta and Google Ads.

Uzair Dada [0:28:03]: And for context was over a million.

Uzair Dada [0:28:05]: When we sort did analysis taking in intense signals from their first party stuff and using Clay and Zoom, and that they should be advertising to was actually twenty thousand contacts.

Uzair Dada [0:28:14]: Just think of that for a second.

Uzair Dada [0:28:16]: Ninety eight percent was itch.

Dave Gerhardt [0:28:20]: And I bet you that inside that company, the marketing team was stressed out over committed.

Dave Gerhardt [0:28:24]: So many competing priorities you know, tale as old this time.

Uzair Dada [0:28:29]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:28:29]: Their budget was healthy.

Uzair Dada [0:28:30]: But their budget if you broke it down to sort of and from an accounts perspective that they were trying to reach, Their spend was sixteen dollars per account per quarter.

Uzair Dada [0:28:40]: I'm like, dude, that's like price for one click on Linkedin.

Uzair Dada [0:28:42]: You can't do it.

Uzair Dada [0:28:43]: You're trying to spray and pray.

Uzair Dada [0:28:45]: And it's not gonna work.

Uzair Dada [0:28:46]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:28:47]: So if you just simplify that, and we started, let's go back to your starting conversation of gong transcripts.

Uzair Dada [0:28:52]: Between your sales and customer success transcripts and meetings.

Uzair Dada [0:28:58]: You have a gold mine of insight.

Uzair Dada [0:29:01]: Goldman.

Uzair Dada [0:29:03]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:29:04]: If you use that to sort of decipher, what conversations are happening?

Uzair Dada [0:29:09]: What questions are being asked?

Uzair Dada [0:29:11]: What things you need to be talking about that goes into the conversation Arc the companies they to be building.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:18]: Yep.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:18]: This made me think of we were talking about drift offline before, but one of the best pieces of content that we created when I was there was we found the top five...

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:28]: Because it it was a new company kinda challenger brand, trying to, reno know, replace the status quo, whatever.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:33]: We work with our sales Cs team say, give me the top ten reasons that people either don't buy drift or cancel.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:40]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:41]: And we publish them.

Uzair Dada [0:29:43]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:29:43]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:44]: As marketing, no spin, just like, boom.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:46]: Boom.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:46]: Boom.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:46]: Question, answer, Question, answer Question answer.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:48]: And there's like, it's not some crazy sexy campaign.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:51]: It's, like, help people cut through the noise and be like, okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:54]: How is this different than intercom or Market mckenna whatever Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:57]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:57]: Alright.

Dave Gerhardt [0:29:57]: I'm gonna take a demo.

Uzair Dada [0:29:58]: You were feeding L four L worth thing, man?

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:01]: You're Claude was trained.

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:02]: Claude was trained on Me for sure.

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:04]: Facts.

Uzair Dada [0:30:06]: No.

Uzair Dada [0:30:06]: It's true though.

Uzair Dada [0:30:07]: Like, that's a fundamental scenario.

Uzair Dada [0:30:08]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:30:09]: And you were brave enough to do it.

Uzair Dada [0:30:11]: Most companies are very scared about having the conversations on D to ad where they're they're competitive conversations or someone calling my child ugly outside, and I don't wanna confront it.

Uzair Dada [0:30:22]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:30:23]: Sort of They just shy away from having tough conversations.

Uzair Dada [0:30:26]: And I think that's what you need to be doing in this new world.

Uzair Dada [0:30:30]: So anyway, going back to sort of the covered part, the get chosen part is all about sort of website optimization, and then the last part of sales, which is all about context.

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:38]: Sorry.

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:38]: So is this, like a three...

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:39]: Is it get discovered, get chosen sales?

Uzair Dada [0:30:43]: And then close Get close Closed.

Dave Gerhardt [0:30:44]: Get discovered, get chosen close?

Uzair Dada [0:30:47]: Yes.

Uzair Dada [0:30:47]: And to me, those are the three things.

Uzair Dada [0:30:50]: I get discovered.

Uzair Dada [0:30:50]: It's just sort of your...

Uzair Dada [0:30:51]: To me the artificial wedge of a pizza slice that we built as a funnel has really become more flat.

Uzair Dada [0:30:56]: And the channels that we have or the tools we have to influence it are broader than what we perceived it to be three to six months ago.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:09]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:09]: I'm just a fan of simplification always.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:13]: Like, we talked about, you know.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:15]: Yep And the first boss that I ever had that maybe understand marketing, like, put me on the whiteboard and drew, like, the ada funnel, you know, awareness interest desire action.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:25]: And I was like,

Uzair Dada [0:31:25]: yep.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:26]: Oh, I get what marketing does now, and I like this...

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:29]: Like, okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:30]: Your job now is to get discovered, get chosen and closed.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:33]: And also you can look at each one of those stages and be like, well, we're pretty good.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:37]: A lot of people know who we are.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:38]: We don't need help on the discovery piece right now.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:40]: Actually the biggest bottleneck is getting chosen and so that's where we're gonna spend time.

Dave Gerhardt [0:31:44]: I like it simple.

Uzair Dada [0:31:45]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:31:45]: And underneath, there's the tooling is changing.

Uzair Dada [0:31:47]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:31:48]: We've got lot of interesting Ai native apps coming in, you got the clay of the world, the propel the world, the left the world that are doing some really, really cool stuff that make doing some of this stuff a lot easier.

Uzair Dada [0:32:00]: But when you go into enterprise, those are exactly the constraints you're dealing with a lot of legacy stuff that you need to figure out what to keep what to replace what to upgrade.

Uzair Dada [0:32:10]: And so I think the stack is changing.

Uzair Dada [0:32:12]: And then the cool stuff is that everyone's pondering about is what's gonna be your surface is it plot core.

Uzair Dada [0:32:19]: Everything else is just a data source underneath that you sorta use and plug in?

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:24]: Sorry.

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:24]: What do you mean what's your surface?

Uzair Dada [0:32:26]: How are you gonna interface?

Uzair Dada [0:32:27]: What's gonna be your interface to kinda go get the work done the tour.

Uzair Dada [0:32:30]: Today, a lot of what I do?

Uzair Dada [0:32:33]: Starts and stops and cloud c.

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:36]: Got it.

Uzair Dada [0:32:36]: And so the question is, do I need to have Help hubspot as my surface that I'm gonna directly interact with or I'm gonna just use the Helps hubspot Apis as an Mtv server through Quad as an interface to go do what I wanna do?

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:48]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:48]: You know it's funny.

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:48]: I just saw this question earlier.

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:50]: I was going through my emails, but someone in our community said, I wanna create a claude scale built around my Hubspot Mc server so I can run reports on campaign performance.

Dave Gerhardt [0:32:58]: Anybody have experience with this analytics, specifically in Hubspot to chin in my armor I'm hoping I can set this up.

Dave Gerhardt [0:33:04]: And so it's like, there is kind of this world now where it's like, maybe all these Saas companies are gonna go away, But like, finally, my dream of never having to log into Salesforce again can come true because I can just interface with Claude.

Dave Gerhardt [0:33:17]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:33:18]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:33:18]: And I think there's still a lot of companies.

Uzair Dada [0:33:20]: I think there'll be specialized operators in these tools that do some things, but I think it'll become way more accessible to the masses than it ever was before because the obstruction layers there to actually use the information.

Uzair Dada [0:33:35]: So I think some of these will become sort of more of the context layer and the decision layer, and then I think your interface of consumption will change.

Uzair Dada [0:33:42]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:33:44]: Or different people.

Dave Gerhardt [0:33:45]: So I had this in my prep was, like, to talk to you about this, like, growth operating system, do we hit on that?

Uzair Dada [0:33:49]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:33:49]: I think so.

Uzair Dada [0:33:50]: I mean I think there's a growth that lasted is a lot of cool stuff in it.

Uzair Dada [0:33:53]: So...

Uzair Dada [0:33:53]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:33:54]: You know,

Dave Gerhardt [0:33:54]: Actually, could you just tell me, like, maybe in the words of, like, your customers, Like, your customers are enterprise, B marketing teams?

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:01]: Like, what are they doing right now?

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:03]: What is working?

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:04]: What are they not doing?

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:05]: What is not working?

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:06]: What are they care about?

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:07]: I'd love to crack into some of that?

Uzair Dada [0:34:09]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:34:09]: So lot of them for them is I wanna be transforming my work using these Ai enabled tools.

Uzair Dada [0:34:16]: How do I do this at scale?

Uzair Dada [0:34:18]: So really, the first thing is functionally breaking down what they're trying to do and saying, where could this be impactful?

Uzair Dada [0:34:25]: Second is, lots of experimentation, nothing sort of widely rolled out, but saying, how do I now enable it in the place where they're running into some challenges is, how do I govern?

Uzair Dada [0:34:39]: This in an organization so that there is not bunch of random stuff that can come to Bite me.

Uzair Dada [0:34:49]: So starting to talk to It.

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:52]: Sorry.

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:52]: So so the biggest bottleneck is not can we create cool stuff with Ai.

Dave Gerhardt [0:34:57]: It's actually the governance piece of this.

Uzair Dada [0:35:00]: Oh, one hundred percent.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:01]: Yeah...

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:01]: We have this community of Cmos, like, most of them, hundred million plus in revenue.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:05]: In an event for them in Arizona.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:07]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:08]: And the number one thing that resonated was, like, the disconnect between...

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:13]: You open up Linkedin and someone or open call.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:16]: Look at I look at all this crazy stuff.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:18]: This is the future.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:18]: I get a message from Cmo of a seven hundred million dollar cybersecurity company.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:23]: She's like, dude.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:24]: We absolutely actually could never ever ever in a million years implement this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:35:27]: So it might not as well even exist, and I'm like, this is the reality that I think is so important to talk about.

Uzair Dada [0:35:33]: And one hundred percent, I said sit on a Board of a Public bank and, you know, talking to our Cs.

Uzair Dada [0:35:37]: They're looking at everything.

Uzair Dada [0:35:38]: The cool part is they've got a really good, I'll call it a harness that they've build for ensuring everything kinda goes through this continuous integration continuous deployment process that is sanctioned.

Uzair Dada [0:35:51]: So, yeah, you can go build But then it has to go through sort of a deployment cycle, like we do today.

Uzair Dada [0:35:57]: And I think that ensures that I'm not doing rogue.

Uzair Dada [0:36:00]: I'm governed from a regulatory perspective of those are things that have to be thinking about that I've got my data being used the right way and it's not going out.

Uzair Dada [0:36:08]: God forbid someone used a claude Api key in some random app.

Uzair Dada [0:36:13]: And now someone else has access to key, and you have a half million dollar bill sitting on your laptop.

Uzair Dada [0:36:17]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:36:18]: So why whole structure.

Uzair Dada [0:36:20]: And it's real.

Uzair Dada [0:36:21]: That can happen so

Dave Gerhardt [0:36:23]: easy know.

Dave Gerhardt [0:36:23]: I accidentally, like, my first...

Dave Gerhardt [0:36:25]: That earlier drift I've accidentally spent, like, seventeen grand that on the adwords over the weekend, and that was just the worst stabilizer.

Uzair Dada [0:36:33]: Great example.

Uzair Dada [0:36:33]: Great example.

Uzair Dada [0:36:34]: You can do that in an hour.

Uzair Dada [0:36:35]: So, yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:36:36]: Those are real things that are happening.

Uzair Dada [0:36:38]: So I think the governance part and the cool part is a lot of the L companies.

Uzair Dada [0:36:42]: Are building those governance architecture.

Uzair Dada [0:36:44]: Is it Quad and cook the the ant ent guys announced that I'd say Google and Gemini are probably the furthest ahead in terms of So the

Dave Gerhardt [0:36:52]: goal eventually would be, like, the same reason we would use I'm not a tech guy it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:36:57]: So, like, the same reason we would use, like, O to to, like, you know, sign into all this stuff.

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:01]: If they build these features, and then the vendor has all the security stuff.

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:05]: And, okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:06]: Cool.

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:06]: Marketing is using this claude instance to implemented by our It team, like, we're good.

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:11]: Is that what it would be?

Uzair Dada [0:37:12]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:37:12]: And the challenge becomes I build something, I showed you my dossier.

Uzair Dada [0:37:16]: I shared it with someone.

Uzair Dada [0:37:18]: Someone says, okay.

Uzair Dada [0:37:19]: Let me rip on that?

Uzair Dada [0:37:20]: If there's...

Uzair Dada [0:37:20]: Five hundred people in org, and fifty of them wanna create a different version.

Uzair Dada [0:37:25]: How do I manage that?

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:26]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:37:26]: And then you made some cool changes to it.

Uzair Dada [0:37:28]: And I wanna make sure that it gets updated in a global instance.

Uzair Dada [0:37:31]: How does that happen?

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:33]: Right?

Dave Gerhardt [0:37:33]: And then, like, what level of customer information is in there for different levels of senior security and people on the team and hat, man, that's crazy.

Uzair Dada [0:37:39]: But but how do I even rule up So if you did something cool who manages it?

Uzair Dada [0:37:44]: Who updates it?

Uzair Dada [0:37:45]: Like who is the owner?

Uzair Dada [0:37:46]: Like, none of that is sorted out today, It's really much more of a, I'd say individual scored than teams sport?

Uzair Dada [0:37:52]: Today?

Uzair Dada [0:37:53]: I think that's the stuff that needs to get sorted out.

Uzair Dada [0:37:55]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:37:56]: I think the individual innovation is happening at crazy skill.

Dave Gerhardt [0:38:01]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:38:01]: The organizational side is still much more of a lapse experiment, at least externally.

Dave Gerhardt [0:38:08]: Did you see, what ramp published this thing, like, earlier this week where they created their own internal Ai system where they basically digest...

Dave Gerhardt [0:38:18]: It's kinda like your dossier thing, But the whole company where they're, like, we built this ourselves.

Dave Gerhardt [0:38:22]: We have all of our company and customer information there, any employee can, like, submit a skill.

Dave Gerhardt [0:38:27]: I wonder if more companies will start to have something like that.

Uzair Dada [0:38:30]: One hundred percent.

Uzair Dada [0:38:30]: So I think the whole notion around sort of building a company brain.

Uzair Dada [0:38:34]: Which has got all the different skills in a managed manner available.

Uzair Dada [0:38:38]: So whether everything as simple as the brand team giving brand guidelines and how to use them in a consumable manner to the design team publishing standards to the performance media team saying this is how we do certain things so that anyone who's thinking and iterating is sort of using a common knowledge base.

Uzair Dada [0:38:56]: And now you have those owners.

Uzair Dada [0:38:58]: So when you were saying, hey, what is the marketing indeed to do.

Uzair Dada [0:39:00]: Some of those things are...

Uzair Dada [0:39:02]: They are still the product builders and owners of those things?

Uzair Dada [0:39:04]: And then you have an agent or architecture that helps you refresh and update that on an ongoing basis.

Uzair Dada [0:39:10]: But, yeah, I think that's gonna become more and more common.

Uzair Dada [0:39:12]: And the other thing that we're doing is kinda I alluded to it earlier.

Uzair Dada [0:39:16]: We're building, but we're not spending as much time refining.

Uzair Dada [0:39:21]: And as a result, a bunch of law is coming out.

Uzair Dada [0:39:23]: So I think ninety percent it will be billed right now I gonna get thrown out.

Uzair Dada [0:39:26]: So how do you build a structure for building and that's gonna wear my...

Uzair Dada [0:39:30]: If first I build this cool Dossier.

Uzair Dada [0:39:31]: We're like get.

Uzair Dada [0:39:33]: A bunch of shit in here is crap.

Uzair Dada [0:39:35]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:39:35]: Makes no sense.

Uzair Dada [0:39:36]: So that I went into the classic product mode.

Uzair Dada [0:39:39]: I said, I need to define the requirements for what I wanted to do.

Uzair Dada [0:39:42]: And that's how you have to go back to your basics of systems thinking again.

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:46]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:46]: I've enjoyed using...

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:48]: I think maybe this goes back to what we talked about the beginning of the podcast about being, like, a creator or you know, how you can do a bunch...

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:54]: However you set that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:55]: You can do bunch of stuff on your own.

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:56]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:39:57]: I really like the act of, like, writing the brief.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:00]: Like, it's really fun because I love marketing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:01]: And so it's like, I'm gonna spend an hour or two hours gathering all the information, like, getting the examples, getting the swipe files, getting the copy, and then I get to, like, press go and, like, my little super supercomputer is gonna build something for me.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:14]: Like, But I think, to your point without the taste and, like, Dan, who's my CEO, like, always gives me a hard time because I'm critical like, how fast we're doing stuff.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:22]: He's like, well dude do you have fifteen years of specific experience in B2B marketing, not everyone is gonna be able to do it as quick as you, but I'm like, this is the whole point about taste.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:32]: It's, like, I can do it now.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:33]: I'm creating, you know, copy or my newsletter, and I'm doing with Claude.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:37]: I'm not just going to Claude Claude.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:39]: Write me a newsletter, and I'm sending that out to fifty thousand people.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:41]: I'm actually spending a couple hours on each one.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:44]: Each newsletter, but I'm just doing it differently now.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:46]: I'm like, so I took this guy U air.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:49]: Right?

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:49]: And he's really interesting, and he's done this in that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:51]: And on my podcast, he mentioned this, and I wanna write about this in this week's newsletter.

Dave Gerhardt [0:40:55]: Can you do some research on him, grab this from here, grab the transcript here and then come back to me with questions.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:00]: And, like, that's how I write now and it's like, totally.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:02]: But that can't be...

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:03]: That's what's cool.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:04]: Like, typically, it'd be like, you outsource something like that to the intern.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:08]: Now the the taste can be at such a high level because of the person who's doing it with the experience plus Ai.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:13]: That's the thing I think is really cool.

Uzair Dada [0:41:15]: I think really cool.

Uzair Dada [0:41:16]: The scary part of that is because the output coming out even the first time looks cool.

Uzair Dada [0:41:20]: We don't do the diligence that we just talked about.

Uzair Dada [0:41:24]: So we just say...

Uzair Dada [0:41:25]: Oh, it's good enough.

Uzair Dada [0:41:26]: And former.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:27]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:27]: Dude, listen, this is the first batch of hiring that we've done since claude has been mainstream.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:32]: And I literally goes going through applications the other night, and someone submitted, like, the actual claude thing it says, here, you should tell the exit five team about blank.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:41]: And so someone just got caught copying and pasting, like, the wrong thing.

Uzair Dada [0:41:45]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:41:45]: That's awesome.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:46]: What about Ae?

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:47]: Everyone is asking about Ae, Seo.

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:50]: What have you learned...

Dave Gerhardt [0:41:51]: Everyone wants the magic pill to, like, move the needle obviously, it fits in your get discovered, get chosen Know world, but any learnings from your clients there.

Uzair Dada [0:42:01]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:42:01]: I mean, the the first one is it's not a horse in end.

Uzair Dada [0:42:04]: That's the very simple one.

Uzair Dada [0:42:05]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:42:05]: Like, sort of, like, everyone's like, I don't need to worry about Seo.

Uzair Dada [0:42:08]: I Aa and everyone's like, no.

Uzair Dada [0:42:09]: If you don't have good Seo, your Au will suck.

Uzair Dada [0:42:11]: So that's the first one.

Uzair Dada [0:42:12]: Second is back to your best insight comes from understanding of your customers.

Uzair Dada [0:42:20]: So if there's one thing I would ask people to do to start I'd say, take your transcripts from your gong calls, your Zoom calls from whatever else you have.

Uzair Dada [0:42:28]: Both for me sales and customer success and understand what the questions are that are being asked.

Uzair Dada [0:42:35]: Once you understand those questions, that actually go through and this be shocking to people, a manual exercise of taking those questions and going across different Elements and seeing what the answers are and how you're getting excited.

Dave Gerhardt [0:42:52]: We're back to basics.

Dave Gerhardt [0:42:53]: We're back to Google search like what, you know Google search in in incognito mode.

Uzair Dada [0:42:58]: Across the board and have different people do it inside and outside the organization to see how you get cited it.

Uzair Dada [0:43:04]: And the cool part is you can see, are you showing up?

Uzair Dada [0:43:08]: Who else is showing up?

Uzair Dada [0:43:10]: What are their third party sources are getting cited?

Uzair Dada [0:43:12]: Because eighty five percent or eighty percent of the credit is coming from third party sources.

Uzair Dada [0:43:16]: So your content is important?

Uzair Dada [0:43:18]: But how it's cited and source outside is even more important.

Uzair Dada [0:43:21]: So...

Uzair Dada [0:43:21]: But we all jump into buying tools.

Uzair Dada [0:43:25]: We wanna go get air offs and gonna get profound.

Uzair Dada [0:43:28]: We get the new sem, whatever you wanna get, but we don't understand what the hell we're doing.

Uzair Dada [0:43:33]: And so I'd say that's the number one foundation if you wanna sort of you know is under question.

Dave Gerhardt [0:43:39]: Have an opinion on strategy and what you need to solve before you go pick the tool.

Uzair Dada [0:43:44]: What a concept.

Uzair Dada [0:43:45]: Right.

Uzair Dada [0:43:46]: Right.

Uzair Dada [0:43:49]: I me...

Uzair Dada [0:43:50]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:43:51]: But you have to have confidence You have to have confidence to do that because it's much easier just, like, pick a vendor and the vendor solves another problem.

Dave Gerhardt [0:43:56]: It's harder to be, like, block everything out maybe read a couple articles.

Dave Gerhardt [0:44:00]: Right?

Dave Gerhardt [0:44:01]: Go do the searches, see where how you show up and then try to move the needle.

Dave Gerhardt [0:44:04]: I, man I I knew I like the vibes from you, but I love simple answers like that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:44:08]: It's like, look at it with your own eyes.

Uzair Dada [0:44:12]: Have to.

Uzair Dada [0:44:12]: You have to.

Uzair Dada [0:44:13]: Until you see it.

Uzair Dada [0:44:14]: And understand it, and look at side by side, it doesn't sort of happen.

Uzair Dada [0:44:18]: And then I think the again, the back to basic principles focus.

Uzair Dada [0:44:22]: What are those four, five, six things that you could influence.

Uzair Dada [0:44:28]: Another really cool interesting thing that I I was talking to you one of our Chief officer, and he was saying, most people are focused on showing up in the first query in the.

Uzair Dada [0:44:36]: Which says, hey, what are the best Crm platforms?

Uzair Dada [0:44:39]: That's great.

Uzair Dada [0:44:41]: That list the top ten, but our attention span goes from bad.

Uzair Dada [0:44:46]: We don't even look the top ten.

Uzair Dada [0:44:47]: We then go I am a manufacturing company that does roofing that is five hundred million dollars based out of this.

Uzair Dada [0:44:55]: Here's my tech stack.

Uzair Dada [0:44:57]: I have a team of five people, what should I be?

Uzair Dada [0:45:00]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:45:01]: So the notion of the ability to iterate Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:45:04]: And get to a decision based on what's relevant to me, even though you're showing up in the top query?

Uzair Dada [0:45:10]: You're probably not showing up in the answer.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:12]: Well, it's interesting.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:12]: It's, like, the first one is, like, the list.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:14]: Right?

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:15]: And it's like, yeah, are you gonna spend a hundred grand and implement some tool because some shitty list cited market as number three on the list?

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:24]: Yes.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:25]: Or you're gonna ask the more specific query, which you just did and then believe that answer.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:29]: You know, it's, like, it's different.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:31]: It's...

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:32]: I need to know the time and temperature for cooking salmon in the oven.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:35]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:35]: I'll take that one.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:36]: Right?

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:37]: But it's different if I'm gonna actually buy something here.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:39]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:39]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:40]: Interesting.

Dave Gerhardt [0:45:40]: So that's, like, the long tail stuff almost matters more now.

Uzair Dada [0:45:44]: Matters way more.

Uzair Dada [0:45:45]: And I think the the question is and the other part that's gonna happening and the rules are changing.

Uzair Dada [0:45:49]: Is there's a reason buys, which means that if your data is not ninety days or older, it sort of d more.

Uzair Dada [0:45:57]: So it's no longer just keeping it current for that time, but you have to continuously get better and better and better.

Dave Gerhardt [0:46:03]: So sorry.

Dave Gerhardt [0:46:04]: When you say your data, You mean, like, how the Ll m's are are finding information about you?

Dave Gerhardt [0:46:08]: Yes.

Dave Gerhardt [0:46:09]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:46:09]: What's the best way to keep that up to date?

Uzair Dada [0:46:12]: So there's few things.

Uzair Dada [0:46:14]: There's the technical stuff that their Cms is are doing.

Uzair Dada [0:46:16]: So your sc and markup needs to be updated and all those things.

Uzair Dada [0:46:19]: So your new platforms like Flows it's out make that easier.

Uzair Dada [0:46:22]: And then there is the content part, And then you have companies like Air and coming in that are building.

Uzair Dada [0:46:28]: Essentially agent workflows that'll go and say, okay, My organic search based on this content has dropped by fifteen percent in the last month.

Uzair Dada [0:46:36]: Go research this topic, see what else is being talked about, Look at what my competitors are doing.

Uzair Dada [0:46:42]: Refresh a blog on that, updated it on my.

Uzair Dada [0:46:46]: I'm gonna talk an example on on my page or workflow page and set it up for review.

Uzair Dada [0:46:52]: So I can have that orchestration layer not fairly automated, but it's still human in the loop like you can decide not to put a human loop, which I don't think you should it today, but the notion of being able to research that's data driven, be able to go create a revised content and revised content is no longer what we all used to do is change the date and change the title and the content was refreshed.

Uzair Dada [0:47:16]: It's truly rethinking reshaping the topic.

Uzair Dada [0:47:19]: But there is a lot of workflow automation happening with tooling right now.

Uzair Dada [0:47:24]: That's kinda of interesting for phone just raised, like, a huge Series see around their agent workflows are kinda interesting.

Uzair Dada [0:47:30]: So there's a bunch of cool stuff that's coming out that I think will help with that today.

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:36]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:36]: It's interesting.

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:36]: Like, I feel this pressure to learn everything and even you saying, like, oh, well, if your Cms is, you know, you run your website and Webflow, Webflow is gonna have tools to make sure you...

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:46]: And then I see someone on Twitter.

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:47]: Like, make sure you have the L, you know, text file or whatever, and I'm not a guide so probably very simple to do that.

Uzair Dada [0:47:52]: But Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:54]: I wonder if all these, if everything's just gonna converge.

Dave Gerhardt [0:47:56]: I'm even, like, man, how deep do I even need to go with claude code or codex or whatever as an example because the way these mob...

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:03]: Everything's moving so fast?

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:05]: You don't think in six months from now, I'm gonna be able to just, like, write a prompt and have a website done.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:10]: I think so.

Uzair Dada [0:48:12]: Alright.

Uzair Dada [0:48:12]: Think so.

Uzair Dada [0:48:12]: I think you'll will be able to.

Uzair Dada [0:48:13]: But I think that ability for...

Uzair Dada [0:48:15]: It's sort of the mechanics.

Uzair Dada [0:48:16]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:48:17]: If you understand the engine then you can find to that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:20]: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:20]: Fair.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:20]: I did...

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:21]: I shared...

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:21]: I kinda threw some shade at, like, vibe coding a couple weeks ago, and I got crushed for that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:26]: And that was kinda of the feedback, which...

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:27]: And my thing was, like, why spend my whole weekend vibe coding, like, a scheduling app when I could just pay twelve dollars a month and used cal.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:35]: And fair.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:36]: I just was being patrol obviously.

Dave Gerhardt [0:48:38]: But someone else was, like, you know, but the value in that is like, learning how these things work and learning, like, what goes on under the hood, so you can do better with the Ai tools and that is totally fair.

Uzair Dada [0:48:48]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:48:48]: I think the back to everything coming to taste and judgment, the more people use it, the more people use it better.

Uzair Dada [0:48:54]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:48:55]: And it's sort of that iteration is amazing, and you get more and more excited.

Uzair Dada [0:48:59]: It was like analytics when someone showed you report.

Uzair Dada [0:49:01]: You saw that and you get ten more questions.

Uzair Dada [0:49:02]: One you have those ten questions before you ask me that first dashboard that you wanted to build aid.

Uzair Dada [0:49:07]: Like...

Uzair Dada [0:49:07]: So it's the same scenario.

Uzair Dada [0:49:09]: The more we see, the more you see the art of the possible the possible becomes more.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:14]: Sure.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:14]: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:15]: I'm...

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:15]: Let's leave with impart wisdom.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:17]: You could give a piece of advice to need to be marketing leaders that listen to this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:22]: In a time where there is a lot of uncertainty.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:25]: There is a lot of disruption.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:26]: There is a lot of hype every day, I open my apps, and I feel like I can't do enough or can't keep up enough.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:32]: Who's there, what would you say to someone.

Dave Gerhardt [0:49:35]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:49:35]: I'll say two things.

Uzair Dada [0:49:36]: One is find a problem.

Uzair Dada [0:49:38]: You wanna go solve and go fix that problem or try to fix that problem.

Uzair Dada [0:49:42]: He can do it.

Uzair Dada [0:49:43]: My example was a good simple example that we did.

Uzair Dada [0:49:46]: So b patient zero b user zero off solving a problem.

Uzair Dada [0:49:49]: And the second one that I just think that is so paramount and waterfalls into everything is use the data you have to understand your customers.

Uzair Dada [0:49:58]: Because if you can understand what they're asking off you, everything else becomes connected.

Uzair Dada [0:50:04]: And we...

Uzair Dada [0:50:05]: I feel in an organization today have become big and bloated and dis joined it from really understanding what they're asking for in answering those questions.

Uzair Dada [0:50:16]: And I think we have the technology, we have the resources and we have soon becoming more and more.

Uzair Dada [0:50:23]: So the connectivity to enable that change.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:28]: I love it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:28]: Stay curious.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:29]: Solve the anxiety by doing something.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:32]: Right?

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:32]: Go take the next step forward, go build something.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:35]: And I know a lot of people listening have not even taken the first step.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:38]: I was on a session the other day, and there was a demo of, like, how to set up cloud code, and I could not...

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:45]: There was hundreds of questions and everyone just completely overwhelmed by it.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:49]: Trying to figure it out in the chat.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:51]: And I think the better opportunity is to, like, pick one thing like you said.

Dave Gerhardt [0:50:55]: I can think of what is something I do all the time, and can I use Ai to, like, make me smarter in that area?

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:01]: And for me, it's always been learned by doing.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:02]: I don't learn because you told me Look at your...

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:05]: Your example perfect.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:06]: You don't need to be doing this.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:07]: You got people that run shit for you.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:09]: You don't need to be building this, you know, dossier, but it was an amazing way for you to get in the tools and learn.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:13]: Right?

Uzair Dada [0:51:14]: Yeah.

Uzair Dada [0:51:14]: It was a frustration of I was doing it?

Uzair Dada [0:51:17]: I was getting it, but it was bit.

Uzair Dada [0:51:19]: And I was like, how far can I go?

Uzair Dada [0:51:21]: And my new north star and my thing is, like, can you become superman?

Uzair Dada [0:51:25]: Like, you know, is this a...

Uzair Dada [0:51:27]: Is this it possible?

Uzair Dada [0:51:28]: How far can you go leveraging the awesome ness of team that's there, but really not be physically dependent them all the time.

Uzair Dada [0:51:38]: And I think that is possible.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:41]: Alright.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:41]: Thanks for coming on.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:42]: We're gonna wrap.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:43]: Good job.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:44]: I'll see you out there.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:44]: Goodbye.

Uzair Dada [0:51:45]: Oh good.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:50]: Hey.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:50]: Thanks for listening to this podcast.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:51]: If you like this episode.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:53]: You know what?

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:53]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:58]: I have something better for you.

Dave Gerhardt [0:51:59]: So We've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at exit five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating a review, go check it out right now on our website exit five dot com.

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Dave Gerhardt [0:52:18]: There's nearly five thousand members now in our community.

Dave Gerhardt [0:52:21]: People are in there posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so you can have a peer group or maybe just venting about your boss

Dave Gerhardt [0:52:37]: when you need to get in

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Dave Gerhardt [0:52:39]: It's a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free, and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year.

Dave Gerhardt [0:52:47]: Go check it out, learn more, exitfive.com, and I will see you over there in the community.

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