#331: ABM: What Ramp, Snowflake, and Hightouch are doing in 2026

#331 | Dave is joined by a group of marketing leaders from Ramp, Snowflake, and Hightouch for a discussion about ABM and their plans for 2026.  Casey Patterson (Director of ABM, Snowflake), Drew Pinta (Director of Growth Data Science, Ramp), and Brian Kotlyar (CMO, Hightouch) break down what ABM actually looks like in 2026 and what’s working right now inside of their companies. They share how they’re picking target accounts, aligning with sales, and building programs that go way beyond running ads. The group also digs into measurement, personalization, and how teams are using better data and AI to scale ABM without wasting budget. If you need a deeper dive on ABM tactics right now, this is the episode for you

Timestamps

• (00:00) - - Why ABM is still a top topic in 2026
  
• (04:31) - - Intros: Snowflake, Ramp, and Hightouch
  
• (07:51) - - Defining ABM (and why sales alignment is everything)
  
• (14:01) - - The “stop list”: ABM tactics they’ve killed
  
• (16:31) - - Why paid social “ABM awareness” is overrated
  
• (19:51) - - Shifting ABM to in-person and physical plays
  
• (24:01) - - Budgeting for ABM and how to start small
  
• (28:59) - - Why ABM measurement is different than traditional demand gen
  
• (34:19) - - How they build ABM audiences using data + signals
  
• (39:39) - - Scaling personalization without making it manual
  
• (45:19) - - Final takeaways and wrap-up

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Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt show.

Dave [0:00:02]: Alright.

Dave [0:00:17]: Hey, everybody.

Dave [0:00:18]: I'm excited to be here.

Dave [0:00:19]: My name Dave.

Dave [0:00:20]: I'm the founder of Exit Five.

Dave [0:00:21]: Twice a month, we do these Exit Five live sessions where we bring on subject matter experts to go deep in a topic that matters to you and marketing today.

Dave [0:00:30]: Huge turnout super hot topic.

Dave [0:00:32]: Always for some reason, A hit for us is when we talk about ABM.

Dave [0:00:36]: And today's session is ABM, with to start, stop and scale in twenty twenty six.

Dave [0:00:41]: We have a group of awesome marketers from Hightouch Ramp and Snowflake hanging out behind the scenes right now.

Dave [0:00:48]: But real quick, If you're listening to this?

Dave [0:00:50]: I just wanna make sure that everything's working okay, audio is okay.

Dave [0:00:52]: So I want you to go in the chat, And I'm just curious, put your name in where you riding from?

Dave [0:00:57]: And then why did you take an hour out of your day to come hang out with us and learn about Ab?

Dave [0:01:01]: Is there something specific you wanna learn?

Dave [0:01:03]: Is your boss pushing you to do that to research this area.

Dave [0:01:05]: What do you wanna know about Ab?

Dave [0:01:07]: Why are you here?

Dave [0:01:08]: Why are you taking time out of your day to come here We had an awesome number of response for this.

Dave [0:01:13]: We had a great prep call yesterday behind the scenes.

Dave [0:01:15]: We're already already going, and I'm excited to talk about ABM with everybody today.

Dave [0:01:19]: We'll do questions in the chat.

Dave [0:01:21]: You can put the questions in the q and a.

Dave [0:01:22]: That's really helpful for me as the moderator here so I can sort them and we can pick them by up votes.

Dave [0:01:28]: Other than that, all these are recorded.

Dave [0:01:31]: We'll send out the recording after.

Dave [0:01:32]: One of the best parts is being active in the chat because everybody here is also a marketer working in b b marketing.

Dave [0:01:37]: So please.

Dave [0:01:38]: Ask questions, share what you're doing, help out each other, and I hope we're gonna have a great discussion today about ABM.

Dave [0:01:45]: But real quick before we hop into this, I just wanna give a shout out to Hightouch they're the sponsors presenting sponsors of today's.

Dave [0:01:51]: Live session.

Dave [0:01:52]: And since you showed up today, I know you care about ABM, and I can assume you're probably trying to improve your ABM efforts beyond just picking a list of target accounts and running ads, which I guess that's not how you do ABM.

Dave [0:02:02]: There's a lot that I have to learn today, Because the team doing it right now are the ones using data and signals to influence timing messaging and personalization across channels, but that's also where ABM gets messy fast.

Dave [0:02:13]: It can take an absurd amount of steps to build the right list, press correctly and ship just a simple campaign.

Dave [0:02:19]: And that's where Hightouch comes in.

Dave [0:02:21]: Hightouch is a data Ai platform.

Dave [0:02:23]: Built for marketing teams that help you activate the data already in your warehouse so you can build ABM audiences, trigger life cycle plays and run smarter segmentation across email, ads and your Crm, without relying on engineering, Heck.

Dave [0:02:36]: And as a bonus, the Hightouch team put a bunch effort into this, the Hightouch team created an ABM playbook for you, breaking down how they do ABM internally and you're gonna hear from their Cmo in a minute Brian, I think you'll be like, guys pretty smart.

Dave [0:02:47]: I wanna learn how how they do it.

Dave [0:02:49]: And so they'll send that to you after this webinar, Brian's here, and we got a great group of people today.

Dave [0:02:55]: Let's kick this off, Allison and send the crew out here.

Dave [0:02:57]: We'll do quick intros and we'll we'll get right into the meet, which is which is everybody wants.

Dave [0:03:01]: So let's go Casey Drew and then Brian.

Dave [0:03:04]: So, Casey, Intro, like, who are you?

Dave [0:03:06]: Quick background about your company in the role just to set context for everybody.

Casey [0:03:10]: Oh, absolutely.

Casey [0:03:11]: Hi I'm Casey.

Casey [0:03:12]: I work at of Denver.

Casey [0:03:13]: I'm in San Francisco today, working out of our Hq at Snowflake, Snowflake is a data warehouse company that layers Ai on top of good data.

Casey [0:03:21]: As we all know if you sick Ai on a bunch of bad data.

Casey [0:03:25]: You basically get bad answers faster.

Casey [0:03:27]: So Snowflake is the answer to that.

Casey [0:03:29]: We organize your data well, and then we layer the most efficient and on top of it.

Casey [0:03:34]: What's really cool about Snowflake is that we're using it internally for a Program, meaning, today, sales reps are gonna be able to go into just Snowflake like intelligence, which is one of our new launch tools.

Casey [0:03:43]: Sales reps or marketers and say, are my accounts being targeted by ABM today.

Casey [0:03:47]: How's the performance on those accounts.

Casey [0:03:48]: And that's the power of Snowflake is that it brings marketing and sales together, which is basically the foundation of ABM.

Casey [0:03:54]: I've been in data tech for about five years now.

Casey [0:03:57]: I started out at five, which is another data tech company, an And moved to ABM over here.

Casey [0:04:02]: I manage a team of twenty three ABM marketers.

Casey [0:04:04]: So we have a very robust ABM program that we're very fortunate to have and sales alignment is our number one rule and goal for everything.

Casey [0:04:11]: Really excited to talk to you today.

Casey [0:04:13]: Thanks.

Dave [0:04:14]: Love it.

Dave [0:04:14]: Wait.

Dave [0:04:14]: Say what you said Bud, You said just to some about first time, long time behind the scenes.

Dave [0:04:18]: Made me feel good to say that here, Dow?

Casey [0:04:20]: Oh, my gosh.

Casey [0:04:20]: Absolutely.

Casey [0:04:21]: I said longtime time listener first time caller, This is a huge deal for me, Dave.

Casey [0:04:25]: I've followed you on Linkedin for a long time.

Casey [0:04:27]: I read your post yesterday about Burnout Ai, and I was like, I completely resonate.

Casey [0:04:32]: I think that we're in this flex period with Ai.

Casey [0:04:36]: That is almost like the Internet.

Casey [0:04:38]: It's kind of like, this whiplash thing where we're over rotating, and then companies are competing and then there's gonna be some winners, but basically, we have to jump on the train and get messy with it, which is what we're doing today.

Casey [0:04:47]: So really admire you and and Exit Five's work.

Dave [0:04:49]: It's That's awesome to hear you say that.

Dave [0:04:50]: And the last minute audible what a gift, Hillary Hillary had the flu.

Dave [0:04:53]: She called in Casey, Casey H runs a team of twenty three ABM marketers and and here we are.

Dave [0:04:58]: Drew in the mix today, Drew director of growth in data science at...

Dave [0:05:02]: Ramp live from New York Drew.

Dave [0:05:04]: Welcome.

Dave [0:05:04]: Welcome to the show.

Drew [0:05:06]: Thank you, Dave.

Drew [0:05:06]: I'm also thrilled to be here.

Drew [0:05:08]: Also big Snowflake and Hightouch users, so excited to be with Brian and Casey.

Drew [0:05:11]: I run the sort of data science function for go to market at Ramp.

Drew [0:05:16]: And, case you don't know about Ramp, we sell finance automation software across corporate cards, expense management, Bill Pay, procurement, and accounting, and it's

Dave [0:05:24]: all in one platform.

Dave [0:05:25]: Den my Ceo, guy should have a Ramp tattoo like, downhill.

Dave [0:05:29]: His ribs or something.

Dave [0:05:31]: Like, the biggest fan.

Drew [0:05:33]: I love hear.

Dave [0:05:34]: I got some beef though.

Dave [0:05:35]: They...

Dave [0:05:35]: We reached out.

Dave [0:05:36]: We were trying...

Dave [0:05:36]: Yeah, I'm trying to get him a brand deal with Ramp, and they were like, we could send you a hat.

Dave [0:05:39]: Talk talk to

Drew [0:05:40]: me after.

Drew [0:05:40]: I think we...

Drew [0:05:41]: Yeah.

Drew [0:05:42]: That's Ramp.

Drew [0:05:43]: And our go to market motion in case that's helpful context.

Drew [0:05:45]: Where both hybrid product led sales led and about thirty percent of our business comes through self serve and seventy percent like for sales.

Drew [0:05:51]: Yeah.

Drew [0:05:52]: That's Ram.

Dave [0:05:53]: Awesome.

Dave [0:05:53]: And Brian, Brian, I've known through connecting over the space.

Dave [0:05:56]: Brian was random demand Janet and Intercom.

Dave [0:05:58]: I was in a company called Drift and had him on my podcast and have kinda continued to follow his work super sharp guy, like, what you're doing at?

Dave [0:06:06]: Hightouch.

Dave [0:06:07]: Did I just do your bio for you?

Dave [0:06:08]: Or do you wanna say something?

Brian [0:06:10]: Well, it's pleasure to be here.

Brian [0:06:11]: Yeah.

Brian [0:06:11]: So Hightouch helps you orchestrate straight and run awesome ABM programs and we're honored to be a Ramp of customer as well, but also, we support a lot of the cool stuff gonna share with you and do a lot of cool things case he's gonna talk about.

Brian [0:06:23]: So...

Dave [0:06:24]: Alright.

Dave [0:06:24]: So I told you I was gonna ask you the first question I was gonna ask you was what what you're gonna stop, But I actually forgot that the first thing that I wanted to ask you all, just a level set for everybody here today.

Dave [0:06:33]: Can we try to define ABM, and I don't really care about the Linkedin like, cute definition of it?

Dave [0:06:39]: I wanna hear how you each talk about it as a go to market strategy inside of the company, Kc, you mentioned the number one thing that matters to you all is sales alignment.

Dave [0:06:48]: And so maybe I'll let you kick it off.

Dave [0:06:50]: Like, how do you talk about...

Dave [0:06:51]: Hey, here's why we do ABM and...

Dave [0:06:53]: Or here's how ABM works at our company.

Casey [0:06:56]: Yeah.

Casey [0:06:56]: Thank you for, like, bringing it back to first principles, You know?

Casey [0:06:58]: ABM is fabulous it changes at every company, obviously.

Casey [0:07:00]: Here, we talk about it as bringing sales strategy to life through marketing channels.

Casey [0:07:05]: So we don't start with the marketing part.

Casey [0:07:08]: We start with the sales part.

Casey [0:07:09]: Meaning, like, These are the sales target account.

Casey [0:07:12]: Sales does not think in terms of the marketplace.

Casey [0:07:14]: They think in terms of accounts they wanna go after.

Casey [0:07:16]: And we basically double down on those accounts with our marketing spend and our personalization to make sure that every single sales metric is elevated on the accounts that they care about the most.

Casey [0:07:26]: Obviously, the whole database, the whole Tam is important, and we wanna generate high level demand in all of those places.

Casey [0:07:32]: But what we really need is the director at this customer account to give us the time of day so that we can get into this new line of business.

Casey [0:07:39]: And ABM can go procure that contact nurture to that contact, deliver it to sales, outbound, all of those things are what sales care about the most.

Casey [0:07:47]: So bringing sales strategy life marketing channels.

Dave [0:07:50]: Brian, you you mentioned this before Backstage, but you said you have data on this of The accounts who got ABM from you and didn't.

Dave [0:07:56]: That would be an amazing way to show this to the border to the Ceo whoever.

Dave [0:07:59]: Right?

Brian [0:08:00]: Yeah.

Brian [0:08:00]: Yeah.

Brian [0:08:00]: So the way that we think about it is efficacy of Is always very challenging to demonstrate it feels like it's the right thing to do, but it's not always obvious.

Brian [0:08:07]: So the way we think about it is we essentially...

Brian [0:08:09]: Similar to what Casey does is, like, we really work very hard to pick the right accounts and figure out that territory that we're gonna pursue with our sales friends.

Brian [0:08:17]: But then, actually, even though their dream accounts, we don't do maybe A bunch of them.

Brian [0:08:21]: And we essentially have a treatment group and a control group amongst these amazing targets that we wanna pursue.

Brian [0:08:26]: And what we have found is that the accounts that are in the treatment group, The ones receiving the digital programs receiving the joint sales motions that we're executing, they'll convert from une engaged to a, a stage one opportunity with us at about thirty two percent higher rate than the general population.

Brian [0:08:41]: And then even further down funnel, of those that converts to stage one, about thirty eight percent of those will convert as to at a higher rate than stage one.

Brian [0:08:50]: So you're seeing this really powerful, like, double dip effect, where even among the universe of great accounts that you're more likely to win anyway, they're more likely to to end enter a sales process with you, and they're more likely to qualify to buy with you.

Brian [0:09:02]: That's what stage one they're true for us.

Brian [0:09:04]: It's are they engaged with the seller and are they qualified in and off?

Dave [0:09:07]: That's what's so great about ABM, by the way, just from an out.

Dave [0:09:09]: Outsider standpoint, I'm not doing this.

Dave [0:09:11]: I'm just a podcast host and and a thought leader, but it feels like you can actually show the efficacy of marketing and you're not looking at, like, did they click on this ad and did they buy, But did they listen to the podcast and did they or immediately become an Sql after the podcast?

Dave [0:09:24]: It's like, it's you're able to look at the bigger picture.

Dave [0:09:26]: That wasn't initially what drew me to Hillary stuff at at Snowflake and obviously, Casey, you're you're a part of that.

Dave [0:09:30]: Brian, I wanna just circle back to something you said, which is funny Mad on my team sent me this in a chat, and I wrote this down.

Dave [0:09:36]: And you said, we work really hard to pick accounts Well, how does that actually play out?

Dave [0:09:41]: How do you do that?

Brian [0:09:43]: It's actually, pretty much like a Cro level activity here?

Brian [0:09:46]: Because we really wanna be pursuing the people that we can sell to effectively.

Brian [0:09:50]: And you see this all the time like in...

Brian [0:09:53]: Non ABM shops where you're selling to everybody and the conversion rates are just utter garbage on many accounts.

Brian [0:09:58]: Is just because they're not the right people to buy.

Brian [0:10:00]: The way I touch works is it runs on top of a data warehouse.

Brian [0:10:02]: If you don't have one, we have no business talking to you.

Brian [0:10:05]: And that's why Snowflake a great partner to us.

Brian [0:10:07]: And so as an example.

Brian [0:10:08]: So if you don't have Snowflake, what exactly am I gonna sell you.

Brian [0:10:11]: So those should not be in the list.

Brian [0:10:12]: It's a very simple example, but there's many other indicators as well.

Brian [0:10:14]: And so we're constantly, as part of territory planning.

Brian [0:10:18]: Working as genuinely a Cro level topic.

Brian [0:10:21]: Which account are we gonna send seller a b or c to pursue and why.

Brian [0:10:25]: And then once they're in the list, I can talk more about this if it's interesting.

Brian [0:10:28]: All these business processes and workflows get kicked off?

Brian [0:10:31]: Because if you're in the list, we want you, and we're gonna All, no holds barred we're gonna pursue you.

Brian [0:10:36]: If you're not on the list, God bless you.

Brian [0:10:38]: If you wanna buy something, knock on the front door, maybe we'll sell you, maybe we will.

Brian [0:10:41]: When you say

Dave [0:10:42]: it's a zero level activity.

Dave [0:10:43]: Is a zero actually, like, looking at that company going into the website, checking it out.

Dave [0:10:48]: Personally, or is it like, there's some...

Dave [0:10:50]: You know, you've showed me this spreadsheet that says they have this many employees.

Dave [0:10:53]: They're using Snowflake and so we're good.

Dave [0:10:55]: No.

Dave [0:10:55]: Actually see I

Brian [0:10:56]: not manually doing it.

Brian [0:10:57]: But like, no We have a lot of pre work that happens at a data science level at an account rich level at a research level.

Drew [0:11:03]: Right.

Brian [0:11:03]: To equip us with how we're gonna prioritize and so the weighting of what we're gonna prioritize.

Brian [0:11:08]: And the strategy we're work gonna prioritize.

Brian [0:11:10]: And then the final sign off of who makes the cut.

Brian [0:11:13]: Okay.

Brian [0:11:14]: True is this

Dave [0:11:15]: does this blend into just blend into your world

Drew [0:11:17]: a little bit.

Drew [0:11:17]: Yeah.

Drew [0:11:17]: It's super similar to how we do things.

Drew [0:11:18]: I mean, I think the key thing for us is it's really partnership between data science and sales.

Drew [0:11:23]: The first cut is, like, a data science model.

Drew [0:11:25]: Of who's a good fit, who's high intent for Ram.

Drew [0:11:28]: That list then goes to sales leadership, and they're gonna whittle down and, like, figure out how to parse all the accounts.

Drew [0:11:33]: But the key piece is, like, It's a really dynamic process that the list changes throughout the year.

Drew [0:11:38]: So the people know the account best they're the salespeople people working them.

Drew [0:11:41]: So a lot of times they'll work on, they'll be like, hey, like, this account, they've got a three year contract with Am mx.

Drew [0:11:46]: We can't sell to them.

Drew [0:11:47]: We've been them on the list for, like, three years from now.

Drew [0:11:49]: Take them off.

Drew [0:11:50]: They get the next highest ranked company goes to them.

Drew [0:11:53]: And you you keep opting updating it.

Drew [0:11:54]: But end of the day, it's like, we're really supporting sales here.

Drew [0:11:56]: And I think it's important to look at it that way because they just know these accounts better than anyone else.

Drew [0:11:59]: Yeah.

Dave [0:11:59]: Casey's sm as you said that?

Dave [0:12:01]: What's your learning there?

Casey [0:12:02]: I see this all the time.

Casey [0:12:03]: We can come up with the data science model that says this account is the best to book a meeting by Snowflake next, and then we go to the sales rep and they say, I actually golf with the Ceo yesterday and like I put in a Salesforce task for my golfing session, but they're not gonna buy.

Casey [0:12:15]: Another two years.

Casey [0:12:16]: So we're like, okay.

Casey [0:12:17]: We obviously trust you and that...

Casey [0:12:18]: There's no amount of intent that company can show that will outweigh the fact that the sales rep knows the account intimately.

Dave [0:12:24]: So it's this constant evolution.

Dave [0:12:26]: It's constantly moving.

Dave [0:12:27]: It's not like here the hundred accounts, and we're just gonna market them.

Dave [0:12:30]: I mean, it makes so sense to think about how mom's much money you're spend on marketing to Am mx when they have a three year contract with another company.

Dave [0:12:37]: Like, alright, great.

Dave [0:12:37]: Let's take those funds and apply them elsewhere.

Dave [0:12:39]: Okay.

Dave [0:12:40]: First one on my list is the stop list.

Dave [0:12:42]: We promise we're do stop start scale.

Dave [0:12:44]: So Let's go around and I wanna to hear just pick one.

Dave [0:12:47]: What's one traditional ABM best practice or specific tactic that you've officially killed in twenty twenty six or decided you're not gonna invest in anymore.

Dave [0:12:56]: We talked about this a little bit on our prep call, like, maybe something that you used to do in ABM to book meetings.

Dave [0:13:03]: You're not doing it anymore.

Dave [0:13:05]: Feel free to take the mic everyone on that one.

Casey [0:13:08]: Okay.

Casey [0:13:08]: I'm taking the Mic again.

Casey [0:13:09]: Just so I don't sm in the background and and get called out.

Dave [0:13:12]: That's good.

Dave [0:13:13]: I'm just showing

Casey [0:13:13]: you my possible.

Dave [0:13:14]: I'm just showing you I'm world class host and I want you to.

Casey [0:13:17]: You are.

Casey [0:13:17]: You are.

Casey [0:13:18]: Okay.

Casey [0:13:18]: Great.

Casey [0:13:19]: I actually, Brian mentioned this a little bit earlier.

Casey [0:13:20]: I think we fallen into the trap of targeting too many accounts.

Casey [0:13:24]: And Sales Lu ABM because we are talking to them every day.

Casey [0:13:27]: We're telling them exactly what's happening in each account, and then they want more and their appetite increases, and we are salespeople people like, on our Ad team.

Casey [0:13:34]: Half of my team is former salespeople.

Casey [0:13:36]: We wanna please, we wanna do whatever sales wants.

Casey [0:13:38]: And so we will add too many accounts.

Casey [0:13:41]: And each of my team members now has an account limit so that we're not going to two hundred accounts.

Casey [0:13:46]: One person cannot know two hundred accounts intimately.

Casey [0:13:48]: That's not Anymore that's kind of targeted demand gen, but it doesn't scale in the way we're doing it today.

Casey [0:13:53]: So we're limiting that list and making sure it's, like, Brandon said the Cro aligned or, like, if anyone went to that account list.

Casey [0:13:59]: They would say, yeah, obviously that is a target work?

Dave [0:14:02]: How many can't you give a sweet spot number.

Dave [0:14:04]: How many can it?

Dave [0:14:05]: If it's not two hundred.

Dave [0:14:06]: What's the right?

Dave [0:14:06]: I'm I'm Dave sales guy.

Dave [0:14:08]: How many accounts can I handle?

Casey [0:14:10]: It depends on the size and the type of accounts.

Casey [0:14:11]: So we have two teams of support customer accounts at one team support majors accounts, which that's the Disney's of the world, the capital Ones, they can handle maybe twenty accounts and that's pushing it each person.

Casey [0:14:21]: Because you wanna know everything about those accounts You wanna have one to one campaign going for every one of those accounts.

Casey [0:14:26]: On the total opposite side, we have our prospect, team that only does non customers, and that they...

Casey [0:14:31]: We say they're supporting, like, forty reps each.

Casey [0:14:34]: We gotta limit to, like, two or three ABM accounts per rep.

Casey [0:14:37]: So that is about one twenty one fifty per ABM.

Dave [0:14:41]: Nice.

Dave [0:14:41]: Helpful.

Dave [0:14:42]: Was just

Brian [0:14:43]: gonna say for us, the maximum we let an Ae hold is twenty.

Brian [0:14:46]: And to case this point, there can be some folks that Have I've won.

Brian [0:14:49]: But the absolute maximum we left twenty.

Brian [0:14:51]: We just don't believe that a human being even with Ai tools can do a good job from working point, regardless of size which.

Dave [0:14:58]: Is a twenty for the year, twenty at a time.

Dave [0:14:59]: Twenty at time

Brian [0:15:01]: and there is flex, but there's friction on switching out ones.

Brian [0:15:04]: You can't just randomly, like, go through and change a minute and out in and out in and out.

Brian [0:15:07]: But twenty at a time with the flexibility through, like, decision chain to make changes.

Drew [0:15:13]: Under of my stop.

Drew [0:15:13]: We're stopping paid social ads for, like, ABM brand awareness.

Drew [0:15:16]: And this kind of fits with what Casey's talking about we're, like, when you're doing ABM very top of funnel like this, it can quickly just morph into, like, targeted demand gen and we found it's it's not super effective.

Drew [0:15:27]: And, additionally, like, I think everyone on on your nose.

Drew [0:15:30]: Like, digital is getting more more saturated with how easy need it is to pump ads out in digital.

Drew [0:15:34]: So we're super focused on going back to in person in physical and...

Dave [0:15:38]: Wow, that's interesting.

Dave [0:15:39]: So ABM, if I can para there.

Dave [0:15:42]: You all are kinda saying, ABM is actually not targeted demand gen.

Dave [0:15:46]: What you're showing ads to select group of companies that's demand gen.

Brian [0:15:51]: I agree and I disagree, and recently actually drew to compare notes.

Brian [0:15:54]: I guess we could do a live for everyone here if you wanted.

Dave [0:15:57]: Like if you guys gone over.

Dave [0:15:58]: I why don't you take this offline compared notes.

Dave [0:16:00]: So do it now.

Brian [0:16:01]: Part of that experimentation project, I described to you when we had a control and not control is we also had a digital only group.

Brian [0:16:06]: And in such a tiny audience of only twenty accounts.

Brian [0:16:10]: We just went, like, crazy super saturated, and we did see lift relative to control.

Brian [0:16:15]: I have some evidence that would say that you can use paid social display pretty good effect.

Brian [0:16:20]: But the one thing I would did wanna mention on the call here is that the creative fatigue.

Brian [0:16:24]: Is happened so fast.

Brian [0:16:26]: It's nuts.

Brian [0:16:27]: We you only have twenty accounts, with only ten people inside of each that you care about, and you're buying every impression Linkedin in Facebook will give you for those people.

Brian [0:16:34]: They see the ad, like, three hundred times like, You

Dave [0:16:37]: just grow to hate the company the

Brian [0:16:39]: yeah So we actually need to...

Brian [0:16:40]: And we we it part of our program is minimum every two or three weeks, all the creative changes.

Brian [0:16:45]: It has to.

Brian [0:16:46]: So anyway, that...

Brian [0:16:47]: And then...

Brian [0:16:47]: But to at your point, where I I agree and have data that very much aligns to what you're saying, Drew, is the way we think about it is once you're through that initial introducing phase, and there's a little bit of a relationship between the company and the target.

Brian [0:16:58]: I...

Brian [0:16:59]: There's some indications of of behavioral engagement and stuff.

Brian [0:17:01]: That starts to move what we call it, kinda like, it's a mid funnel.

Brian [0:17:04]: And in there, by far the highest efficacy thing is stuff that's not on the internet.

Brian [0:17:09]: It's talking to them in in real life.

Brian [0:17:11]: Let's dive

Dave [0:17:12]: into that.

Dave [0:17:12]: So you're gonna do digital.

Dave [0:17:14]: You you may or may not do digital run display to your target accounts whatever.

Dave [0:17:18]: There definitely seems to be this converging of, like, everybody's doing more stuff, dinners, events, not online.

Dave [0:17:25]: Can we talk about specifically at Hightouch Ramp and Snowflake?

Dave [0:17:29]: Like, what are you y'all doing there then?

Dave [0:17:31]: What's working what plays are you running right now?

Dave [0:17:33]: I'd love to unpack

Drew [0:17:35]: some of that, please?

Drew [0:17:35]: I mean, I would go back to what we said about this being sort of sales led.

Drew [0:17:39]: The best in person events we've seen are the ones where the salesperson comes up with the idea.

Drew [0:17:44]: And sometimes they're, like, hyper specific dinners around, like, a specific pain point in a specific industry that on the marketing side, we probably wouldn't have thought of.

Drew [0:17:53]: There's, like a lot closer to it.

Drew [0:17:55]: And They'll have an idea of, like, a bunch of accounts they wanna get in the room, we'll help them get a few more in the room set up the event, but those are the things actually tend to work really well for us.

Dave [0:18:04]: What else?

Casey [0:18:05]: For us, there's a few things, data enrichment on specific accounts is really important.

Casey [0:18:09]: So if for instance, we're selling into a new line of business and sales doesn't have any contacts or any valuable contacts in the line of business, we need to go find those contacts nurture them, and that's where the digital comes in.

Casey [0:18:19]: We can, you know, get them to engage or at least get some awareness from those people.

Casey [0:18:22]: We can research them.

Casey [0:18:24]: We can figure out what the Sdr str says to them on that email outbound.

Casey [0:18:27]: We can figure out what we should send them as a gift, that get some brand affinity straight to their desk And then after that gift, we can work with our field marketing team to say, let's get them in a room with similar customers at a dinner in their area and get them to talk to each other.

Casey [0:18:41]: Maybe this Snowflake like Gru is there.

Casey [0:18:42]: Maybe the stuff Snowflake like rep isn't there.

Casey [0:18:43]: And we're just having customers talk to customers and say, what's going well and what's not first stuff like, but I agree with through that all needs to be in alignment with sales.

Casey [0:18:51]: And sales needs to be able to say.

Casey [0:18:52]: I know what line of business I wanna go after next or I know which account I wanted to go after next so that we can then spend all those very detailed resources.

Casey [0:18:58]: On that whole journey.

Dave [0:19:00]: I wanna keep talking about in person stuff, but there's a a ton of questions in the chat that are relevant.

Dave [0:19:04]: So just to go back to the ads real quick, James said, there's a bunch of votes on that, how are you building advertising audiences for such small groups, Brian, that's probably for you.

Brian [0:19:13]: So I don't mean to plug our software in Snowflake, but I have to plug our software in Snowflake because if we...

Brian [0:19:18]: This is how

Drew [0:19:19]: we do it.

Drew [0:19:19]: Like,

Brian [0:19:20]: genuinely.

Brian [0:19:20]: So we...

Brian [0:19:21]: Hightouch the ability to essentially group contacts that have been enriched that we've loaded into our Snowflake into account groups.

Brian [0:19:27]: So it, like, it kinda natively understands the notion of account in a way that most technologies do not.

Brian [0:19:32]: And so you essentially tell Hightouch for this group, show them this vertical type of act.

Brian [0:19:37]: Now we can't do, like, one to one ad groups or one to five person ad groups because just privacy loss prohibit that.

Brian [0:19:44]: But we are able to say, all these accounts are in this vertical show all of them this creative.

Brian [0:19:48]: All these accounts have this problem set show them this creative and so on.

Brian [0:19:52]: And so we essentially had three different kinds of ad creative that everyone in some way fits into at any given time.

Brian [0:19:59]: And we're hammering them and hitting that, like, max impression lumen that the platforms will give us an time.

Brian [0:20:04]: We also have a product called Match Booster we use, which essentially can enrich all the incremental identifier that we don't have and can't legal loop procure onto the record, so that when we go out into the world to try and find these b b people in consumer channels, we actually can find them on Facebook on Tiktok, whatever and show them ads.

Dave [0:20:23]: Nice.

Dave [0:20:23]: How would you have done this without Hightouch to give the opposite side of this is...

Dave [0:20:27]: I don't have experiences as possible.

Dave [0:20:28]: Drew you're nodding along?

Drew [0:20:30]: It's manual.

Drew [0:20:30]: We're on Snowflake like in Hightouch.

Drew [0:20:32]: And I I don't think we could really do it at scale without those tools.

Drew [0:20:35]: But we do zero six cents as well.

Drew [0:20:37]: But My have a

Dave [0:20:38]: bunch of questions actually, Let's talk about...

Dave [0:20:39]: So bunch of six cents and demand base questions.

Dave [0:20:41]: What tech are you using only six cents in demand base, collection a tool that saw Ramp has an internal revenue tool?

Dave [0:20:47]: Do you believe in tools like six and engine demand base?

Dave [0:20:49]: Feel like this is a big part of your ABM or do you see these as noise as well.

Dave [0:20:52]: I know you all have opinions there.

Dave [0:20:54]: So go for it Yeah.

Drew [0:20:55]: I mean, six cents we have, I would say it has its place.

Drew [0:20:58]: It's pretty good at plugging into, like, add platforms and uploading audiences, and they have a really nice sort of Ui for marketers to, like, design, trigger based, conditional logic for ABM campaign.

Drew [0:21:08]: So we like that piece of it.

Drew [0:21:10]: But Hightouch is much more flexible in terms of what it can plug into.

Drew [0:21:13]: So for a team with, like, a mature data sort of org like, what Ram has, it's really useful to be able to, like, build whatever you want in Snowflake and then use Hightouch to get those outputs into any sort of platform you want.

Drew [0:21:26]: So Like I as an example for gifting, we use a platform called Goody that's not supported by six sense, but hide such can, like, easily pipe data goody and, like, triggered ads

Dave [0:21:35]: goody.

Dave [0:21:35]: Casey, what do you all use for gift somebody asked earlier and I meant to ask

Casey [0:21:39]: Yeah.

Casey [0:21:39]: We use reached us for gifting.

Casey [0:21:40]: We've gone through many platforms, but we also have select kind of bespoke gifting partners that are more tailored.

Casey [0:21:48]: Basically not a warehouse full of swag, but instead, like, how do we create a specific experience for this one executive these here.

Dave [0:21:56]: You're Fortune a hundred Cfo or a Cio, you get a custom curated piece of high end art but...

Casey [0:22:02]: Right.

Casey [0:22:02]: You do not get a twenty five dollar gift card to book a meeting.

Drew [0:22:04]: Oh, it's

Casey [0:22:04]: not what we experience we want to provide

Brian [0:22:07]: we we do the same as casey.

Brian [0:22:08]: In dollar case, it's sent also for, like, the scale stuff, and then we have layered on hot that, a person can put incremental effort into.

Brian [0:22:15]: And to respond to the six sense demand based stuff.

Brian [0:22:18]: I'm sure it's valuable in certain situations like what Drew is describing.

Brian [0:22:20]: But I find it'd be very, very expensive.

Brian [0:22:22]: And the stack that we use that Drew also uses which is the Snowflake Hightouch stack.

Brian [0:22:26]: We find it be much more powerful about all the cost.

Dave [0:22:29]: Oh my god.

Dave [0:22:29]: I didn't expect to go off the rails for my questions so quickly, but the questions in the chat are so good.

Dave [0:22:35]: Will you all just each to take a look really quickly and see if there's one there that stands out to you that relates to this that we should talk to?

Casey [0:22:41]: I feel strongly about Duke question.

Casey [0:22:43]: How much of a budget and be successful with ABM.

Casey [0:22:45]: Budget is one lever.

Casey [0:22:48]: Sales alignment and executive alignment is another.

Casey [0:22:51]: You can very easily carve out some budget from...

Casey [0:22:55]: Your digital spend, not add any net new budget and test ABM and say, is this worth it for our company.

Casey [0:23:00]: It might not be because not every company sells to enterprise level accounts.

Casey [0:23:04]: It might not be the right mix for your sales team, but I feel very strongly that you have to start small, test something and, like Brian said, we measure everything by a lift metric.

Casey [0:23:12]: So it's very scientific method.

Casey [0:23:14]: You know, there's a control group.

Casey [0:23:15]: There's an ABM group and you can just apply different tactics to those groups and see what measure of lift do you get?

Casey [0:23:21]: And, I would also encourage you to track down funnel?

Casey [0:23:23]: Not just can we get a lift on meetings booked or opportunities, but, like Brian said, are they qualified opportunities?

Casey [0:23:28]: Do they convert?

Casey [0:23:29]: Do they convert at a higher rate?

Casey [0:23:30]: Do they convert a higher dollar value.

Casey [0:23:32]: And I know that's not a a perfect answer, Duke and I would say, get as much budget as you can have alignment for, but also just focus on the basics of what are some things you can augment just for your target accounts and then test against not target accounts.

Drew [0:23:46]: A I think the other important point on budget, You need to, like, prime the finance team and whatever stakeholders are controlling the budget that you shouldn't really measure these the same way as traditional marketing campaigns.

Drew [0:23:55]: A lot of times on an Mta basis.

Drew [0:23:58]: Or other measurement techniques, they're gonna look like, they a terrible Roi, and that should be, like, okay.

Drew [0:24:03]: You should know going in.

Dave [0:24:04]: What's an example of that?

Dave [0:24:05]: What might have terrible engagement but end up...

Drew [0:24:08]: I mean, great example.

Drew [0:24:09]: Like, like, if you do anything on, like, a paid out platform with ABM.

Drew [0:24:11]: Right?

Drew [0:24:12]: On these platforms, the black box, right, You wanna just give it a big audience like cook and optimized to whatever signals you're giving it.

Drew [0:24:18]: But with these ABM campaigns, you're limiting it to these really small audience.

Drew [0:24:21]: So it's going to be very expensive to get impressions on that audience.

Drew [0:24:25]: And if you just look at, like, your traditional marketing recording, it's gonna look incredibly inefficient.

Drew [0:24:29]: So you have to look holistically like Brian was talking about across, like, how are these accounts doing overall, not how is this, like, individual campaign on beta doing.

Casey [0:24:38]: Really like add onto that.

Casey [0:24:38]: It is simpler math.

Casey [0:24:40]: To do a people engaged Sql sc, whatever.

Casey [0:24:45]: That is simpler math than ABM.

Casey [0:24:47]: Is the true funnel, everything lines up and it turns into this many clothes.

Casey [0:24:52]: That's not what ABM is ABM is more complicated math, but better experience for your customer and a better return on investment Yeah.

Casey [0:24:59]: On specific accounts.

Dave [0:25:00]: I love that.

Dave [0:25:01]: When I worked at Drift the founder David Cancel was, like, he always would say, that's a company problem.

Dave [0:25:07]: The company wants you to have those steps, so we can properly measure and track and, like, yep, step one, step two step three, but that is not how things happen in the real world.

Dave [0:25:16]: And then, you know, then of a sudden, you're talking to someone and it's like, yeah, Have a three year contract with x, but three years from now.

Dave [0:25:21]: They're gonna come back and re engage maybe because they saw, like, a Kevin Ramp ad or something like that.

Dave [0:25:27]: It's but the internal systems we wanna try to measure it perfectly.

Dave [0:25:30]: It's like, let's Ut everything and see if we can track everything.

Brian [0:25:34]: The only thing I'd add is picking good accounts is not free in terms of time, but it's borderline free in terms of money, And is the thing you should be doing anyway to ensure your salespeople people are concentrating their efforts correctly.

Brian [0:25:45]: So if you wanna do ABM for effectively zero dollars and start immediately, just pick good accounts.

Dave [0:25:52]: There's a question about measurement actually, talking about some of the...

Dave [0:25:55]: Kpis that have been most useful for sales.

Dave [0:25:57]: And I thought of a related one to this where...

Dave [0:26:00]: Okay.

Dave [0:26:01]: I hear you, ABM makes a lot of sense.

Dave [0:26:03]: On the flip side, Drew we talked about.

Dave [0:26:05]: You talked about consumer in the beginning.

Dave [0:26:06]: Consumer you get that dopamine a little bit quicker.

Dave [0:26:09]: You get the data, You get the feedback much quicker.

Dave [0:26:11]: Here it's like, we might not know for twelve, eighteen months if our marketing is effective, but I'm guessing there's signals along the way.

Dave [0:26:19]: How do you all tell the story when you wanna show marketing success leading up to closing the deal, It's gonna take some time.

Dave [0:26:26]: What are the Kpis that matter?

Dave [0:26:27]: I think you don't need to do

Drew [0:26:29]: this to get started, but as you get more mature, you should do the data work to figure out what does it take to convert an enterprise account?

Drew [0:26:35]: How many people do you have to talk to it at that account.

Drew [0:26:38]: How many times do you have to talk to them and how often.

Drew [0:26:40]: And you can use that as sort of a metric of success to see if your ABM programs working.

Drew [0:26:44]: You're not gonna have perfect measurement on how those things are going, but you can get a rough idea based on historical data So for Ramp, we like to talk to a person, like, somewhere around eight times every few months who's, like, an ABM account.

Drew [0:26:56]: Or at least at least hit them with, like some sort of communication, which is a lot.

Drew [0:27:00]: But we don't see, like, diminishing returns as we go high.

Drew [0:27:02]: So, like, we're not worried about that.

Dave [0:27:04]: Brian, how do you know?

Dave [0:27:05]: Your boss of Ceos on you, Sear on you.

Dave [0:27:08]: What's coming.

Dave [0:27:09]: It's come in progress is coming.

Dave [0:27:10]: Mo When's it Coming and Brian When's it coming.

Brian [0:27:13]: Well, we very consciously culturally as a company.

Brian [0:27:15]: We adhere a lot to what David cans used to coach you on, Dave, which is that, like, fighting over retribution.

Brian [0:27:20]: There's no bigger waste of time in a in a b2b b company.

Brian [0:27:22]: And so just don't do it.

Brian [0:27:23]: We've explicitly talked about that in our, like, c level, like, alignment discussion.

Brian [0:27:28]: Like, this is stupid.

Brian [0:27:29]: Many companies have gone down this road and culturally, it's just been so damaging, and not helpful.

Brian [0:27:33]: So we just don't do it.

Brian [0:27:34]: That's the first point.

Brian [0:27:35]: And so what that allows us to do is, again...

Brian [0:27:37]: I I hate to be so repetitive, but really focus on control groups and treatment groups progression, and when we think about progression to be very specific and tactical.

Brian [0:27:45]: We literally have pre opportunity awareness stages that are defined in data.

Brian [0:27:49]: And there's six of them.

Brian [0:27:51]: It's, like, completely unaware.

Brian [0:27:52]: I won't gl in the little stages.

Brian [0:27:54]: I forget, but it's like, lightly engaged, medium engaged, quite engaged.

Brian [0:27:57]: And this is all pre opportunity.

Brian [0:27:58]: And this is visible in the data, and we're doing different treatments for each of those six micro steps before there's even the first opt.

Brian [0:28:04]: Now we have an opt Now there's more steps.

Brian [0:28:07]: And there's more things that we're doing.

Brian [0:28:08]: Each of these things are prescribed, and they're actually verifiable.

Brian [0:28:11]: Like, you could can run a query and see how many accounts from the list we want are in those stages and how many have moved.

Brian [0:28:17]: And so you can just look at that and say, is this working or not.

Brian [0:28:19]: And I get the last thing is there's a qualitative element here, which is are the a's making money.

Brian [0:28:23]: If the a's only have twenty accounts, and they started with only three of them they were talking to.

Brian [0:28:28]: Now there's ten.

Brian [0:28:29]: In of the seven that changed, marketing was in the mix doing stuff.

Brian [0:28:32]: That really helps.

Brian [0:28:33]: And then the last thing, this is a really useful Ll thing that we do, which is we actually run a lot of Ll based manual attribution stuff.

Brian [0:28:41]: We actually have L.

Brian [0:28:41]: Every time a deal closes or moves to certain stage.

Brian [0:28:44]: It actually looks backwards at every bit scrap of data and activity we've had with that account in Gong in Salesforce in Slack everywhere.

Brian [0:28:51]: And then actually writes a little deal story for us of what caused what and how best we can understand.

Brian [0:28:57]: Now, admittedly, the fact that they went to golf is casey.

Brian [0:28:59]: But know is not in there.

Brian [0:29:00]: But, most things are.

Brian [0:29:02]: And the actually do a really good job of developing a deal story and then helping us understand what did what?

Brian [0:29:07]: And we look at those very seriously, much more so than, like, arguing over a last touch attribution for some god for second mas the nobody cares back.

Dave [0:29:15]: Well said.

Dave [0:29:15]: A couple questions in the chat.

Dave [0:29:17]: Tasha, said, what's your strategy for picking good accounts, well, we covered that in the beginning of this, Not gonna go back to that, but we'll make sure you get the replay after.

Dave [0:29:24]: Katie said, if you to start in one area in order to sell the value and generate excitement around ABM.

Dave [0:29:29]: Would you start in generating a net new op or current op progress slash velocity?

Casey [0:29:35]: It depends on what your company cares about.

Casey [0:29:36]: If you're in a high customer environment that we wanna grow our customers a lot, start with accelerating opportunities or accelerating existing customers.

Casey [0:29:43]: If you're in a start up.

Casey [0:29:45]: You don't have any customers you need to just get net new customers in the door, start with getting those salespeople people the opportunities that they need to close.

Dave [0:29:51]: Anybody have a good pipeline velocity play.

Dave [0:29:53]: Whatever you actually done.

Brian [0:29:55]: So it's got too low though for our highest value accounts here in S f.

Brian [0:29:59]: This is mid funnel.

Brian [0:30:00]: We already know these people.

Brian [0:30:01]: I would actually say one of my stops is you don't do this for people you don't know.

Brian [0:30:04]: Everyone just wants, like, magically conjure up pipeline, but this won't work if they're not somewhat engaged.

Brian [0:30:09]: Is there's just really fancy restaurant here called Ce on.

Brian [0:30:12]: It's like, holy crap isn't expensive.

Brian [0:30:14]: And we were very nervous to do it because, in S nsf, everyone is just, like, minded and over nine, so the attrition rates or events are ridiculous.

Brian [0:30:21]: But we figured, okay.

Brian [0:30:23]: This is mid funnel.

Brian [0:30:23]: This is people we know, let's just go all out and book something that we otherwise wouldn't, and it worked to charm.

Brian [0:30:28]: And that was really inspiring for us and we've actually replicated that technique out.

Brian [0:30:32]: But I have to really emphasize that had we done that for people that we didn't already know at least somewhat?

Brian [0:30:37]: I don't believe we would work at all.

Brian [0:30:40]: And these weren't not paying customers, But I mean, we knew that.

Brian [0:30:42]: That's that kind...

Casey [0:30:44]: I have another one for Pipeline velocity, and to go back to Drew point about in person.

Casey [0:30:48]: We did a a localized activation where we had a truck park in a city center in the middle of New York where four fin serve accounts were.

Casey [0:30:57]: And we serve coffee, and we had all the aes there, and we invited everyone down.

Casey [0:31:01]: For a coffee break.

Casey [0:31:02]: We had screens.

Casey [0:31:03]: We had demos prepared.

Casey [0:31:05]: Obviously, we had to do a lot of coordination to make sure those were the right locations localized all those things, but that is a totally offline activation that we just invited folks too, but it was an account based out of home activation for pipeline velocity.

Drew [0:31:18]: I'll grow and hope there too.

Drew [0:31:19]: We got two suites at the Super Bowl weekend.

Drew [0:31:21]: And, obviously, too early to say, but...

Drew [0:31:23]: Very positive responses from account owners so far.

Drew [0:31:27]: And obviously, like, you can't do this super for bold now for another year, but there's a lot of events that you can buy suite at.

Drew [0:31:33]: We've done a Beyonce concert before.

Drew [0:31:34]: And we invited a lot of Yeah.

Drew [0:31:36]: Right.

Drew [0:31:37]: Let's see.

Drew [0:31:37]: How...

Drew [0:31:37]: We got, like, a ton interest in it, and we invited, like, women's Cfo, and we said you can

Dave [0:31:42]: bring your daughter or son.

Dave [0:31:43]: That's amazing.

Drew [0:31:45]: Yeah.

Drew [0:31:45]: So there's a ton of opportunities out there to do in person events like that.

Drew [0:31:48]: And I think if you get creative, you can sort of find things that other people aren't doing?

Dave [0:31:53]: What's the low budget version of that that you're go into some, like, open bar in Burlington Vermont.

Dave [0:31:57]: Good free you invite.

Brian [0:32:00]: You you joke, but generally speaking, I think people are pretty eager to gosh.

Brian [0:32:05]: The internet is just robots talking to robots at this point.

Brian [0:32:07]: So for for

Drew [0:32:09]: for

Casey [0:32:09]: sure

Dave [0:32:09]: dude do...

Dave [0:32:09]: I mean, we we...

Dave [0:32:10]: We're building a whole business around this.

Dave [0:32:11]: Like, that did people wanna hang out and they wanna talk to you there.

Dave [0:32:14]: So I'm I am just being silly, but It is.

Dave [0:32:16]: And I think there's just, like a rule of marketing and everybody's read, you know, Robert Cha influence and one of the principles was reciprocity and it's why gifting vendors started out, It was the premise that, like, if I wanna sell some in a Casey, I'm gonna send her some really good, like champ chocolates, and, there's no ask.

Dave [0:32:33]: But now that she's had those chocolates, There's kind of this unspoken obligation that, like, she might take a sales call for me and it does work.

Dave [0:32:40]: Right?

Dave [0:32:41]: And if you can execute it at a level where you put in a little effort and you're not doing it the way everyone else is doing.

Dave [0:32:45]: I think it's an important point.

Drew [0:32:47]: He said, what is the key to keep people engaged after a live suite event like that, which is, like, the right question to be asking?

Drew [0:32:51]: It's partnership with sales again.

Drew [0:32:54]: So they need to be bought in on this?

Drew [0:32:56]: They should be helping pick the accounts.

Drew [0:32:57]: They should potentially be there.

Drew [0:32:59]: And send some data person and throw this in reporting for, like, accountability also key.

Drew [0:33:04]: So it's very easy to be build reports and see, like, okay.

Drew [0:33:06]: We had this big budget of them.

Drew [0:33:08]: How many accounts have, like, salespeople reach out to after that.

Drew [0:33:11]: Have they've been talking to them?

Drew [0:33:12]: If not, why not?

Drew [0:33:13]: And that's an easy question to ask, so you can kind of, like, enforce this stuff as

Dave [0:33:17]: well.

Dave [0:33:17]: Nice.

Dave [0:33:18]: Gosh.

Dave [0:33:18]: I if I could hug you all I would.

Dave [0:33:20]: Just the amount of people that don't just take the ball and run with these things.

Dave [0:33:24]: It's like, god, mad on our team just said, look at Drew and they're just...

Dave [0:33:27]: Snip that question right out of the chat.

Dave [0:33:29]: That was great.

Dave [0:33:29]: Brian.

Dave [0:33:30]: Did you have a important thing to say?

Brian [0:33:32]: I don't know that's important.

Brian [0:33:32]: But Would just say...

Brian [0:33:33]: I would say, we have this concept of, like, Pg pods, pipe gen pods, and there's a field marketer essentially each one with, like, a consistent group of That they know well.

Brian [0:33:41]: And that really helps to drive that accountability, which is that I expect to field marketers on my team to ensure that if I spend all that money at a nice...

Brian [0:33:50]: Even even not a super expensive dinner a simple dinner that the follow up happens and it happens the next morning.

Brian [0:33:55]: I'm not talking eight days later when the data Richmond or whatever.

Brian [0:33:59]: No.

Brian [0:33:59]: No.

Brian [0:34:00]: If you have a great date.

Brian [0:34:01]: You don't...

Brian [0:34:01]: Well, maybe there are dating rules.

Brian [0:34:02]: I don't date anymore.

Brian [0:34:03]: But you what I mean?

Brian [0:34:04]: Like, you don't wait a month to check in on the the great day.

Brian [0:34:06]: You just had.

Brian [0:34:07]: I wanna see follow immediately in the field marketers are really tightly intertwined with the sellers.

Brian [0:34:12]: To ensure that that happens right away.

Dave [0:34:14]: Man.

Dave [0:34:14]: I'm just thinking about how lucky I am to be married because if I went on a date, and I would be, like, talking to Gemini about how to follow up in the right way with my wife.

Dave [0:34:22]: Like, here's the context we went to this restaurant, we held hand, like, which should I...

Dave [0:34:27]: Alright.

Dave [0:34:29]: This question is from Angie, This is actually...

Dave [0:34:31]: This a fun one to play out.

Dave [0:34:32]: Let's pretend like we're not we.

Dave [0:34:34]: Let's pretend like your marketing experts and and answer this one.

Dave [0:34:36]: Fascinating to hear about the high end plays like Super Bowl sweets, but for those of us with smaller budgets or deep data pools Where should we be placing our bets.

Dave [0:34:44]: What are they ones who tried and true tactics that consistently deliver Roi for lean teams.

Dave [0:34:48]: Each of you are at bigger companies, bigger budgets.

Dave [0:34:50]: You're doing that cool stuff, but, like, let's get scrappy.

Dave [0:34:53]: You're at a new company, new market, you wanna help them do ABM bm at a scrappy level, what would you do?

Dave [0:34:58]: Do direct mail.

Dave [0:34:59]: Things direct mail.

Drew [0:35:02]: How would do direct mail.

Dave [0:35:03]: Let's talk to each Write down your thing, write down your thing in your whiteboard and what we'll go to each drew Could first.

Dave [0:35:07]: So direct mail, How would you identify accounts?

Dave [0:35:10]: What tool would you use?

Dave [0:35:12]: What would the direct mail play be?

Dave [0:35:13]: Would you try to book me?

Dave [0:35:14]: I wanna let's just Rip on that role?

Drew [0:35:15]: Let's say Have nothing.

Drew [0:35:16]: I'm starting from zero?

Drew [0:35:17]: I think I'd go talk to sales?

Drew [0:35:18]: I'd figure out, like, who on the sales team?

Drew [0:35:20]: Like, I pick one salesperson.

Drew [0:35:21]: He's like, excited about ABM wants to work with me?

Drew [0:35:24]: I'd be like, what accounts are you, like, most excited about.

Drew [0:35:27]: And then, Guess, we'd have to go get addresses?

Drew [0:35:29]: I'd probably use Clay?

Drew [0:35:30]: Go get some addresses?

Drew [0:35:31]: I know that seems like the easiest thing to spin up.

Drew [0:35:33]: And then I'd go...

Drew [0:35:34]: What do we use for a direct mail?

Drew [0:35:35]: I get blanking on the vendor, but I'll drop it in the chat.

Drew [0:35:37]: But the vendors are great these days.

Drew [0:35:39]: It's, like, basically programmatic at this point once you upload a list and you get pretty good tracking on, like, if the thing with delivered, you can book Qr codes on it, like, personalize this cf if.

Dave [0:35:48]: Okay.

Dave [0:35:48]: And what would be the offer on it?

Dave [0:35:50]: Like, if you're gonna cold direct mail something to me, what would be the next step from that

Drew [0:35:54]: free airpods if you take a demo.

Drew [0:35:55]: Free airpods if you take it.

Drew [0:35:57]: We're getting out of cheap territory tell me, but I would I'd give them some sort of, like...

Dave [0:36:02]: Well, this is my beef with cheap though.

Dave [0:36:03]: It's like, like anything, you have to spend money to make money.

Dave [0:36:05]: And so if, like, let's put some skin in the game.

Dave [0:36:07]: I think two hundred bucks for airpods to book.

Dave [0:36:09]: You know, if you're doing this type of market.

Dave [0:36:11]: Right.

Drew [0:36:11]: And I think you're cali it with the funnel stage.

Drew [0:36:13]: Right?

Drew [0:36:13]: I wouldn't just send them airpods because they haven't, like, shown any intent.

Drew [0:36:16]: But if they actually, like, scan the Qr code, and they go to a site a landing page, like, That's me feels like enough intent where I'm willing to, like offer them their airpods that way.

Dave [0:36:24]: I like it.

Dave [0:36:25]: Getting some pushback in the chat, which is healthy, but I'm gonna tell you Almost stand up for.

Dave [0:36:28]: Gonna tell you the reason why I like it.

Dave [0:36:29]: The reason why I like it is just the pattern interrupt.

Dave [0:36:32]: I think If you execute on this well.

Dave [0:36:34]: I still mail is, like, the one thing my phone, gone to shit, inbox gone shit, everything gone shit, my actual mailbox up there that I get my mail from.

Dave [0:36:42]: If you did something, like, it was a one of those handwritten envelopes and looked like it actually opened it.

Dave [0:36:46]: I would.

Dave [0:36:46]: So at least you'd get my attention.

Dave [0:36:48]: Alright, Brian.

Dave [0:36:49]: What's your play?

Brian [0:36:50]: I kinda default to teach them something and would probably pair that with meeting them in in real life.

Brian [0:36:55]: So I'm like a big believer in like lunch and learn type offers.

Brian [0:36:58]: And if, like, if you've picked the right account, you can actually kinda figure out what their biggest.

Brian [0:37:02]: Pain points are and what their problems are, and what you can teach them that relates to that, And you can actually develop an offer that's, like, borderline free, especially with Ll and, like, this is your time.

Brian [0:37:10]: Can I come to your office?

Brian [0:37:12]: Can I bring you the famous sandwich place from your city or the famous cookies from your city?

Brian [0:37:16]: And teach your team over the lunch, they have eat anyway about this thing.

Brian [0:37:20]: And if it's credible enough if it's interesting enough.

Brian [0:37:23]: Like, this technique has been around forever, it's essentially the earliest form of content marketing.

Brian [0:37:27]: And I find that it always kinda works It works super well.

Brian [0:37:30]: You pair it with something Casey he said earlier, which is customer voice.

Brian [0:37:33]: So it's like, okay.

Brian [0:37:34]: Let's have a customer teach you and three others this at a dinner or something.

Brian [0:37:38]: People do wanna get better at their jobs.

Brian [0:37:40]: People do have to eat.

Brian [0:37:41]: So these are two universal that you can drive offers off of.

Brian [0:37:45]: A very targeted way.

Brian [0:37:46]: The trick is though, it can't just be like generic Come learn about what personalization is like, well, that's not interesting.

Brian [0:37:51]: What specifically for that account.

Brian [0:37:52]: Do they need to know to be successful?

Casey [0:37:54]: Casey?

Casey [0:37:54]: I'm back to basics on this, and I would go a one to one landing page.

Casey [0:37:58]: Zero dollars if you have a landing page building tool, get access to it.

Casey [0:38:03]: Right.

Casey [0:38:03]: Hey, account name.

Casey [0:38:04]: We know you need x.

Casey [0:38:06]: We provide x, and then put content on the page, give it to sales, sales sends into that account.

Casey [0:38:12]: And I think one of the the biggest values of ABM is that people feel seen and, like, they know what they're looking at, and the person sending it to them knows them as well.

Casey [0:38:21]: It's not Ai generated.

Casey [0:38:22]: It's not an email.

Casey [0:38:23]: It's not something random.

Casey [0:38:25]: It's something that you formulated alongside the salesperson to show that account that you care and, like, brand said educate them and put at the at the bottom, a Cta that says, hey, get a free gift and we'll, you know, book a meeting, And there you go.

Casey [0:38:38]: A little.

Casey [0:38:38]: You don't have to...

Casey [0:38:39]: You don't have to promote it digitally.

Casey [0:38:40]: You just give it to the Year of the salesperson, and they're they're your distribution channel for free.

Dave [0:38:44]: What else anything stand out in the chat?

Dave [0:38:46]: Anything got a hot take that I should have asked you?

Casey [0:38:49]: They've went...

Casey [0:38:50]: Start stop double down.

Casey [0:38:51]: Are we gonna do them.

Casey [0:38:52]: I'm so curious.

Dave [0:38:54]: Sure.

Dave [0:38:54]: We talked about stopping something that you all wanna start this year.

Dave [0:38:58]: That's in your mix.

Dave [0:38:59]: Like, exciting new thing you you wanna go roll this out.

Casey [0:39:02]: Something we're gonna...

Casey [0:39:02]: We're gonna start doing this year is using Ai, u, to help us get people through these journeys.

Casey [0:39:10]: So hi touch does this.

Casey [0:39:11]: I have a slightly optimistic view of Ai that I hope will bring a little bit of hope to marketers.

Casey [0:39:16]: If Ai can automate and generate the things that today, us marketers are doing, we can spend more time on creativity, which is those out of home activations, those messaging pieces that we need a totally different way of thinking about things that Ai cannot do for us.

Casey [0:39:32]: Ai spits out, whatever it's given.

Casey [0:39:34]: Marketers are creative.

Casey [0:39:35]: Marketers can go, change the message here, change the flavor here, get those gifts to those people have those out of home activation.

Casey [0:39:41]: So we are going to start automating those clicking around tasks and trying to reduce the amount of Ui that we're using to launch just one account based campaign.

Dave [0:39:51]: Nice.

Dave [0:39:51]: Couldn't answer Brian.

Brian [0:39:52]: I guess I'll dog food the idea I was just talking about.

Brian [0:39:54]: We're going really much harder with the...

Brian [0:39:57]: The...

Brian [0:39:57]: That lunch in learn motion.

Brian [0:39:58]: We essentially have a bunch of subject matter experts with prepared content about how to use Ai for content generation and, like, effective marketing, and we're going out into the world and we're doing our best to actually visit the Hq of these companies.

Brian [0:40:13]: And hand to hand educate them.

Brian [0:40:16]: The reason we're pulling much harder on that lever this year, content is because we've had really good early signs of that.

Brian [0:40:21]: It's like, we're in a moment where there's so much uncertainty about what's happening to all of our jobs as marketers.

Brian [0:40:24]: And what's happening all of our jobs with the in terms of data and stuff that there's an appetite to learn.

Brian [0:40:29]: And there's a real overwhelmed and when you go into Linkedin over else And so you need to be credible, of course, and that's not always easy, but that's one thing we're we're at least gonna try to double down on this here.

Brian [0:40:39]: It's hard to replicate.

Brian [0:40:40]: Like, if we can scale it and do it effectively, Our competitors may struggle to do that.

Brian [0:40:43]: You not, one Facebook ad away, from booking hundreds of really quality subject matter expert led meetings with your buying audience.

Brian [0:40:52]: So do hard things is, you know, one of those good life lessons, and that's certainly part of how we think about ABM.

Dave [0:40:58]: Sure.

Dave [0:40:58]: You got anything on your on your wish list where there at Ramp.

Drew [0:41:02]: I do.

Drew [0:41:02]: My team just built a similarity model.

Drew [0:41:04]: I don't wanna get two data e in the weeds, but for every prospect, it tells us who the top customers we currently have who are similar to that prospect.

Drew [0:41:12]: And I think to circle back all the Ai in person stuff, social proof kind of, like, been around for a while.

Drew [0:41:17]: I think it matters more.

Drew [0:41:18]: Now.

Drew [0:41:18]: I think if you can personalize a message with, hey, your competitor or this company that's similar to you uses Ramp, and they love it.

Drew [0:41:27]: That goes a long way.

Drew [0:41:28]: And to go back to the Hightouch point.

Drew [0:41:30]: Like, we've got this model built now.

Drew [0:41:32]: We've typed it into, like, a billion different places.

Drew [0:41:33]: So we've got it and ad platforms.

Drew [0:41:35]: We've got it pipe down to our website with Hightouch for personal landing pages, and we've got it right in, like, our Crm tools for salespeople.

Drew [0:41:42]: So they're on a call now to pops up and it says, Here's like, three companies you can use for social proof.

Drew [0:41:46]: Yeah.

Drew [0:41:47]: I brought the data weeds.

Drew [0:41:48]: Judy.

Drew [0:41:48]: I like that.

Drew [0:41:49]: So, yeah...

Drew [0:41:50]: It's been super useful references too?

Dave [0:41:52]: That's a to take this back just a timeless marketing stuff.

Dave [0:41:54]: It's like, show...

Dave [0:41:54]: A timeless marketing principle number, I, don't know, thirty seven.

Dave [0:41:57]: Right?

Dave [0:41:58]: Show me who else like me is already having success with this thing.

Drew [0:42:02]: Right.

Drew [0:42:02]: It's not something Ai can replicate.

Drew [0:42:03]: You need to actually have those customers to say that.

Dave [0:42:06]: Yeah.

Dave [0:42:06]: And there's a lot of nuance.

Dave [0:42:07]: The Nuance is, like, Ai surfaces Am max, but it's, like, well, we just play golf with them yesterday and we know that I wanna be that guy.

Dave [0:42:13]: That sounds fun.

Dave [0:42:14]: Just playing golf with, like, these big companies.

Dave [0:42:16]: That's...

Dave [0:42:16]: I like my job.

Dave [0:42:17]: But that again deal.

Dave [0:42:18]: Oh, not it sounds awful.

Dave [0:42:20]: That sounds awful.

Brian [0:42:23]: Do thing I would add to Drew point, if you've got those models in your pipe them out using Hightouch or.

Brian [0:42:28]: There's other ways, but I would suggest Hightouch.

Brian [0:42:30]: You don't actually have to stop at the landing page, though that, like, model and the associated insights and the customer references that you've kind of gathered and structured.

Brian [0:42:37]: You can be, like, generative obstructing nurture emails.

Brian [0:42:40]: You could be pre building things for your Sdr to send those can be, like, pre generated content that then you send out to your direct mail vendor and so on.

Brian [0:42:48]: So you actually get a lot of scalability and reuse from the data work through is describing.

Brian [0:42:53]: Like, you do that in Richmond.

Brian [0:42:54]: You do that association between customer accounts and proof points.

Brian [0:42:57]: And then it's just like, the job that becomes what are all the interesting ways I can brainstorm to use this.

Brian [0:43:02]: And with the right technology, it's actually quite easy to push it one to many, federated it out to everywhere might be valuable.

Dave [0:43:08]: Cool.

Dave [0:43:08]: Alright.

Dave [0:43:08]: Look, We're gonna wrap because lesson number three on webinars is is end on a high note, and this has been awesome.

Dave [0:43:13]: I'm getting blown up by my team about the three of you and, like, we need to do more stuff together.

Dave [0:43:18]: There's a thousand questions in the chat that we could go deep on.

Dave [0:43:21]: Cool I thought this this was great, but we do measure everything where just like a ua ABM folks were highly data driven organization here at X exit.

Dave [0:43:28]: So we're just gonna roll the ratings poll real quick and just put your ratings here.

Dave [0:43:32]: We asked one through five rate today's session.

Dave [0:43:34]: I thought it I'm pretty biased.

Dave [0:43:35]: It was one of the better ones we've done recently just getting really specific here.

Dave [0:43:39]: I know there's an infinite amount of questions that we we could have got to.

Dave [0:43:42]: But I I thought you all did a a great job, Drew, Casey and Brian.

Dave [0:43:45]: Let's give it up for you all.

Dave [0:43:46]: We'll send you all the ABM playbook from Hightouch after.

Dave [0:43:50]: And then also, just go connect with each of our speakers on on Linkedin.

Dave [0:43:53]: Everybody's super kind and and friendly here as it relates to marketing.

Dave [0:43:56]: I found that if you send a connection request to one of them and drop a quick message after, like, they'll respond.

Dave [0:44:01]: That works.

Dave [0:44:01]: Shout to you all.

Dave [0:44:02]: This was awesome, really useful stuff.

Dave [0:44:04]: Make me wanna do an ABM part two because there's so much we could do here.

Dave [0:44:07]: Thanks for giving us in fifty two minutes of your time today.

Dave [0:44:10]: I'll give you eight minutes back, so you can go check your email or go talk to Gemini before your your next meeting.

Dave [0:44:15]: And we'll see you on the next one.

Dave [0:44:17]: I'm Dave.

Dave [0:44:18]: I'm the host here at Exit Five.

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Dave [0:44:19]: See you all.

Dave [0:44:20]: Thank you.

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